Combined material orders / Purchase power of The Buildhub.

[Patrick]

I'm starting off this topic as it has been mentioned on this forum various time :Combined material orders.

I have organsied something similar for roofing materials and since have become engaged with the roofing company as well as some door/ window manufacturer, but would not want to start being a distributor for every single item I am planning to order. I just very often get quite good offers for whole truckloads of timber or tiles and just can't make use of it as I am missing the storage. Maybe some members on here are interested in saving substantial % of their orders by ordering material early and storing it (for others) and therefore combining purchase power.

I am aware of the logistics problems that arise with it as well of the warranty and payment issues. It s not for the savety/security driven builders but more for the risk-takers on here.

This is not me offering to organise all of this neither saying that I got the best connections/offers but I think that a lot of members on here stumbled (by accident or not) across a great offer(e.g. Half a container of  tiles, Oak flooring by the truckload or anything remotely similar) that was just too much to take by themselves.

I do also think that one-off or fire sales are not suitable as you would need to react and buy quickly, making it difficult to coordinate with potential other interested parties.

It could be organised via some shared platform like Airtable. Depending on amount of interest I might just start a Buildhub Airtable, but mainly want to see what opinions are like and  have others input or initiative.

 

 

[stephen margerison]

seems interesting !

[PeterW]

I think we calculated the combined buying power of BuildHub was circa £60m at any one point in time. 

 

How we actually use that is a very different question ..!

[dnb]

Interesting... I have lots of space, a reasonable amout of time before I need certain things, but live in relatively bad location for logistics. However, I will need some things in large quantities. If the items were to be collected from me, then they would ideally need to be no larger than would fit in a transit van otherwise there are significant ferry fares.

 

I would be most interested in slates, timber cladding, bricks for paving, general timber for stud work, cable etc - i.e. commodity items that are non-specific. I also am not constrained too badly by mortgage funding. Calculated risks aren't too much of a problem as long as I don't generate a cash flow issue.

[Ferdinand]

This is an interesting one, with a number of difficulties. There have been one or maybe two occasions on which this has worked on BH. The biggest issue is perhaps that we are a herd of cats spread out in time and space.

 

My comments

 

1 - I reckon BH could perhaps have groups of size 5 - 30. That is too small to work by mass-bludgeon. Instead we need to supply a notable boost and/or other benefits ie treat them as our customer too.

2 - Any group buy needs to offer savings enough to cover the work of doing it, and to out compete what any individual can achieve by surfin' and lookin' . BH supply side is mostly about more appropriate products, cheaper individual sources for the same thing or alternatives who do not price gouge. This needs to be better than that for the cases where it is used. 

3 - Effectively we need to find things where we can help the business take out cost from *their* process, add very little extra (ie manage there being 20 customers), and perhaps us do things they would normally do.

4 - Perhaps the group within BH (or an audience segment we could develop) would be around those who are slightly risk-averse ie not those of us who are wheeler-dealers. May be custom or PM-ing types rather than those of us who start with a tree and a quarry and a computer and do it all ourselves.

5 - We need suppliers who will play ball.

6 - We need suppliers where the product is standard, or BH experience suggests the supplier is reliable.

7 - We perhaps need to think in terms of other than money - eg making real slates affordable rather than relying on a Chinese import. One might be stabilising cost and reducing risk in markets which are volatile in their pricing. 3G or kitchens?

8 - What is there that is out of reach for most of us, but would come into range for a good deal? 

 

Quite a challenge. Think we need to focus on particular things within the self-build process.

 

Which brings us to:

 

eg Kingspan are not going to give us 30-40% off insulation by buying orders for even 50 houses. It would need to be a big reduction because you can get nearly that much off by just shopping around, and for say Kingspan we would need to put together a regional-developer sized long term order, and some way to make it like dealing with a very few customers. The counterparty risk for KS on a big enough order would negate the benefit.

 

So I have this as my guide as to where this might work:

 

1 - Look for products or services where we can take cost out of *their* process, or be significant to their business.

2 - Suggests places where the cost of customer acquisition is high, the value / margin is high, the process is complex (and BHers - whilst being awkwards sods - perhaps know more than average so can save there), or a smallish group will add a significant chunk to their business.

3 - Things where a knowledgeable customers may be a help not a hindrance.

4 - Smallish suppliers where say 25 orders at once or 25 orders spread out over 6-18 months would be beneficial. Are there semi-craft businesses wanting a bit more turnover?

5 - Look specifically for win-wins.

6 - We need a mechanism to prove that BHers are BHers, so they are getting a known customer.

7 - High value / small size. Also well-defined so we avoid rejection risks.

 

For me this is saying "not commodities" are the lowest hanging fruit.

 

So where does that leave us for areas that may be amenable?

 

My immediate thoughts are double glazing, front doors, some services eg soil testing, small suppliers or those with innovative products,  product trials / research exercises, maybe house shells eg MBC or Scotframe, "luxuries" some of us want eg Sageglass, importers who could get a bigger wagon, smaller suppliers, helping create a simple and durable new House Management system, AliG swimming pools, unusual roofs or high quality rainwater goods?

 

Plus windfall opportunities eg job lots of things. That probably needs the prices to be 10-20% of retail or less. Current example of this might be these. 

 

We may perhaps trigger some to offer "Buildhub versions" of their product or service.

 

Think this will need to be an action-learning thing, as a route to create a template as to how to do it.

 

Ferdinand

 

Edited August 25, 2019 by Ferdinand

[Patrick]

@Ferdinand

I do agree with mostly everything that you say. Like mentioned in our conversation, I do think that it is essential to setup a slim and easy to use admin system first, before going into which items are/would be beneficial for XYZ members.

 

Once agreed on basic items where the interest is big enough, the logistics can be handled and also a quite important factor is the handling of funds.

 

It could be for example for each project, like the example you named :SageGlass, that it is the group(like mentioned 5-30 ppl_) who decides a central enough memeber with some storage space to receive the delivery and store the materials for X amount of time. Should a few members be able to store the goods, it can be split and several drop-offs by Lorry company do not cost a lot more than single drop offs.

 

I just started an Airtable to play around with the Idea and Invite anybody to comment on possible changes/alterations  .

Remember , this is a try out an d might not result in anything and also by no means I am meant to dictate anything here, therefore just PM me if you would like to have admin rights in order to open up you own sub-group for materials in this.

 

I started off with siberian larch boards because

1. I need it ?

2. It s an easy to order and easy to store product

3. Many people need it

4.It seems suitable as a trial product before heading into higher value items.

 

Even though this is against some of the points that Ferdinand mentioned and that I agree with ( 5-7 and the "low hanging fruits" part) - It s my starting point.

 

I suggest @Ferdinand that you send me a PM with your email so i can give you admin rights straight away so you can for example start a second group for Sageglass or anything that you find helpfull.

 

We keep the discussion on here, just easier to make overviews on Airtable (again, if someone has a better choice to organise this, please let this be known on here)

 

this is a "view only" link. to get the edit or admin rights, just send me PM and access is free for anybody interested

 

https://airtable.com/invite/l?inviteId=invwDqSNSqh51Rcl8&inviteToken=ba887f0a6581fa911f1ee46c9869b51db30ffd26d9897ba2ae820735cdaf717a

 

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2019 by Patrick
forgot some points

[Russell griffiths]

How about air source heat pumps, I would say a great deal of us on here are going to use them, they are small so easy to store, a lot on here have gone for the same make. 

I cannot see how it can work with glass, surely that would be dependent on all having the same window manufacturer, you cannot just order the glass. 

 

[Patrick]

1 minute ago, Russell griffiths said:

How about air source heat pumps, I would say a great deal of us on here are going to use them, they are small so easy to store, a lot on here have gone for the same make. 

I cannot see how it can work with glass, surely that would be dependent on all having the same window manufacturer, you cannot just order the glass. 

 

I agree. Windows are difficult. Ashp seems a decent idea. With the right price, I'm sure many on here would be convinced to buy a slightly different model than they planning too, so can narrow it down to 1-2 usefull brands /sizes.  And I'm sure there is negotiation space should you come in with a order of e.g. 10 units. Plus shipping should be a piece of cake

@JSHarris

Paid something like 800£ for shipping from Denmark if I remember correctly - should maybe be double for 10 units but not much more.

[Jeremy Harris]

46 minutes ago, Patrick said:

 

@JSHarris

Paid something like 800£ for shipping from Denmark if I remember correctly - should maybe be double for 10 units but not much more.

 

I bought our ASHP from a UK supplier, but did buy the MVHR from a Danish company.  We paid DKK1,250 for shipping, which at the exchange rate that applied then was equivalent to £140.13, so not that expensive (we were quoted a delivery charge of £240 for exactly the same unit from a UK supplier).

[Patrick]

@JSHarris ok, i remebered some of the story correctly ?.