Basic cement/ ballast Q

[Onoff]

Something like this?

 

 

?

[zoothorn]

@Onoff Yes, correct drawings there thanks. 10cm excess: cabin corners like a "+" you see (stacked horizontals sections).

 

No it isn't big.. which is why I ask if 6x3's couldn't be used. You see its the only s/h one I find & cheap £550 + £50 deliv. Plus I'm really constrained to small due to steep slope & stream. Alternative was a 3msq cabin: alot more tricky plinths even just 0.25 wider wider (esp upper bank side/ may be bank collapse- & another 0.25m stream side Id be encroaching into stream a tad too much).

 

Its more sensible to go a bit undersize, than to push it for the optimum/ biggest/ best use of every inch = asking for trouble.

Plus a new 3msq cabin = £1300 min.

 

Use.. cabinet faff (spring-summer), sitty sunny decky, poss squeeze a temp bed in, twerking practise(sundays 2-4pm).

Edited September 20, 2019 by zoothorn

[zoothorn]

@Onoff

 

haha. that looks great- I want one like this instead.

[Onoff]

Are you proposing to use 6x3 everywhere instead of 6x2?

[zoothorn]

19 hours ago, Onoff said:

Are you proposing to use 6x3 everywhere instead of 6x2?

 

No, was thinking 6x3 only for the 4 beams/ ones the walls' weight goes on (cabin Co's say 4 walls are only where the load happens.. IE not floor).

 

Then 6x2's for joists/ noggins.

 

What do you think? its 6x3 asopposed to 6x4 as it were.

 

 

[Onoff]

25 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

 

No, was thinking 6x3 only for the 4 beams/ ones the walls' weight goes on (cabin Co's say 4 walls are only where the load happens.. IE not floor).

 

Then 6x2's for joists/ noggins.

 

What do you think? its 6x3 asopposed to 6x4 as it were.

 

 

 

Go for it.

 

 

?

 

 

[zoothorn]

@Onoff fantastic.. huge thanks for that. actually what I had vaguely in my head.. but to get it sketched is fab/ & big relief tbh.

 

I've been mulling over how to cut the 6x3 notches on pillars. Is handsaw my only option? gotta be accurate or will pull the 6x3 out of kilter an annoying bit t'other end I'd have thought.

 

How best to attatch the back beam onto the 2x looong ones too? joist hanger corner thingy, or not the best method (or these n/a even)?

 

very grateful- zoot

[Onoff]

1 minute ago, zoothorn said:

@Onoff fantastic.. huge thanks for that. actually what I had vaguely in my head.. but to get it sketched is fab/ & big relief tbh.

 

I've been mulling over how to cut the 6x3 notches on pillars. Is handsaw my only option? gotta be accurate or will pull the 6x3 out of kilter an annoying bit t'other end I'd have thought.

 

How best to attatch the back beam onto the 2x looong ones too? joist hanger corner thingy, or not the best method (or these n/a even)?

 

very grateful- zoot

With a DECENT handsaw...

 

I'd mark the cut lines in pencil then with the tip of the saw cut along/into the pencil lines a bit. That'll act as a guide for your saw blade. Apply Mr Sheen to the saw blade.

[zoothorn]

Damn..

1 hour ago, Onoff said:

With a DECENT handsaw...

 

I'd mark the cut lines in pencil then with the tip of the saw cut along/into the pencil lines a bit. That'll act as a guide for your saw blade. Apply Mr Sheen to the saw blade.

 

Mmm.. dammit it'll have to be a crapone. Ok understand the method- will go super slow.

 

As to the post: the only 6x6 I found was a tannalised softwood gatepost, type with a nice gently-pointy top end you put your hand on & go 'nice'. Was this the right idea?

 

And more importantly is cutting this post into two ~ 90 cm or so (yet to establish precise H). Is a chopsaw the right tool for the job? bit worried its a bit too fkoffbig mind..

[Declan52]

Mark the post on all four sides and use your new very sharp handsaw and cut it up using your lines as a guide. You will need to cut the point of it as well.

Use a 2 L shape brackets to hold the other beams together on the inside and if you want 2 coach screws in from the ends like is marked on the drawing.

Not sure if you have bought the threaded bars yet if not you could use the same screws for attaching the beams to the posts. Something like these. They will be much easier to put in with a cordless or an impact driver of you have one. Just go nice and slow and depending on the beams you might need a pilot hole first. 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/turbocoach-coach-screws-zinc-plated-8-x-120mm-50-pack/2394g

[Onoff]

58 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Damn..

 

Mmm.. dammit it'll have to be a crapone. Ok understand the method- will go super slow.

 

As to the post: the only 6x6 I found was a tannalised softwood gatepost, type with a nice gently-pointy top end you put your hand on & go 'nice'. Was this the right idea?

 

And more importantly is cutting this post into two ~ 90 cm or so (yet to establish precise H). Is a chopsaw the right tool for the job? bit worried its a bit too fkoffbig mind..

 

One would hope the 6"x6" fence post will fit in the shoe. Sometimes they need a bit of pairing down at the end...

 

IF the 6x6 will fit under your chop saw you can maybe mark a line all round, cut halfway then flip over.  

 

You will need some stacked timber a couple of metres away as high as the saw bed is off the ground. This to support the end.

[zoothorn]

@Declan52 cheers for that/ will get these screws. Ok so these will attatch the beams A to the looong beams B. But in order to fix together (@ 90*) I need to clamp A to B.. how? Is there not a 'corner joist hanger' type alu thing I could use (once Ive got some innitial fixings in)? the cabin load will be as much on A as on the looong ones B/ but afaict the weight will push down on the fixings between.

 

I have 2x (stst) metre bars: 8mm & 10mm. I'll use both, for shoe > plinth fixing.. & for beam > notched pillar fixing. Which to use for what?

 

thanks chaps- zoot

[Declan52]

You use something like these.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/sabrefix-heavy-duty-angle-brackets-galvanised-90-x-63mm-25-pack/69361

The weight will be on whatever you intend to use to lift your beam up. What have you chosen for this task.The fixings just hold it all together. 

Use your bars to fix the posts to the base. If you have some left over then use them for the beams to the post. 

Don't just be buying all your bits from Screwfix. I just use it as a guide to show you what I mean. Take the info for the coach screws and L shaped brackets and see if you can source them any cheaper closer to where you live. If Screwfix are the cheapest then fine but always try other places. Every penny counts.

[joe90]

Toolstation deliver for free on orders over £10 unlike Screwfix,s £50.

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, Declan52 said:

You use something like these.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/sabrefix-heavy-duty-angle-brackets-galvanised-90-x-63mm-25-pack/69361

The weight will be on whatever you intend to use to lift your beam up. What have you chosen for this task.The fixings just hold it all together. 

Use your bars to fix the posts to the base. If you have some left over then use them for the beams to the post. 

Don't just be buying all your bits from Screwfix. I just use it as a guide to show you what I mean. Take the info for the coach screws and L shaped brackets and see if you can source them any cheaper closer to where you live. If Screwfix are the cheapest then fine but always try other places. Every penny counts.

 

Thanks Declan- I have screwfix & toolstation in town, lucky, but tend to go with your suggestions rather than shop around (like the irwin clamps- got/ great).

 

@Onoff found the galv spray link [edit]. thx

 

These brackets I'll look at tho as pic is different from 10 pack to 25 pack. But prior to using these, how would I hold a beam to another (in my case back beam to join 90* to side looong beam) how can I clamp these two, being a 90* join?

 

What would you suggest: I have 10mm bar &

Edited September 21, 2019 by zoothorn

[Declan52]

You screw/nail the bracket to one of the beams then offer it up to the other and then fix it. Then put the coach screws in at the ends. 

 

 

 

[Declan52]

So make beam 1&2 up to give you the L shape. Have you posts cut and in the shoe but not fixed to the pads. 

Have your L beam resting on the top pad on the raised bit and your post with shoe and clamp.

Move the L till it's level then clamp to the post. Mark with pencil under the beam for one side and use a level for the other edge then cut your notch on both sides.

Then lift the L into place and onto the post and put a screw in just to hold it together. 

Lift beam 3 and rest it on the notch and do the same procedure with clamping it to the post with the shoe, leveling it,marking it and then notching it. Then lift on again to both notched posts and fix with a screw. 

Then beam 4 . Fix a temp piece of timber underneath beam 3 so it sticks out beyond so you can set beam 4 on the top pad raised bit and on the temp piece of timber. Then using your L brackets fix it in place.

That will give you your square shape. 

Go round and make sure the diagonals are the same so it's square. Move if needed.

Check all the beams for level and the posts for plumb. Move any bits that aren't.

Once your happy every bit is plumb, level and square then bang the rest of the screws in so it's solid. Then check all again esp the diagonals. Mark the shoe holes in the pads.

Slide the frame out of the way and drill your holes and fix the rods in place. Once they are set lift the frame up and drop it over the rods and put the nuts on and tighten it all up. 

Then that's the main bit all done. 

After that it's just measure your joist spacing at 400s and put the hangers on. Check and double check every thing. Don't just wack them on. The twist nails are a nightmare to pull out. With all the hangers on then measure and check and check and cut the joists, drop them into the hangers and fix. 

Deck complete. 

Open tin of beer and put fresh plasters on all your cuts and then set back and look on with pride.

 

[zoothorn]

Crikey this angle-grinder lark is full on I think Ive got a new tuft of chest hair. I was going at it (cutting 10mm bar up for my shoes > plinfs) all hammer & tongs at one stage I thought Id actually set my own arse on fire.

 

Done for the week. I cut up a rod. I think an end of week zoot music interlude to wind down on/ enjoy..

 

Many thanks guys.

 

 

 

[zoothorn]

@Declan52 much appreciated. I'll go through your last post tmrw. Looking fwd to this a wee bit now.. before I was dreading it tbh.

[zoothorn]

I'm getting nowhere fast with this. Bought a 7ft post, spent ages choosing one max 151mm.. cut 'hat/ point off & hand cut carefully into 2 today. I measured 85cm between plinths before.. but offered up & I'm 20cm out. goddamit. So wasted £30 on post/ time/ & both pillars useless.

 

So if I get a 8ft post (n/a longer/ & I couldn't manage alone either) & I get beams attatched to notches cut into them.. best I can do is beams sitting 2cm pround of top of posts: but this is a measurement -without- taking into account raising the beam off the upper plinth at all.

 

So its either buy two more 7ft posts & waste most of each.. or somehow use the 8ft post with some thinking involved: if I could somehow cover the beams, & have them resting on the plinths, I could just about do it. This is what my pro chap originally suggested.

 

Do I need to have the beams flush with the post tops? is 2cm discrepency n/g?

[Onoff]

Should have bought a laser level like I said...oh look a tenner off now!

 

https://m.clasohlson.com/uk/Cocraft-HL10-S-Cross-Line-Laser-Level/Pr409996000

[Declan52]

2cm isn't going to make much difference. 

[Onoff]

Have the posts sitting 2cm low or drop 2cm of packing into the bottom of the shoe. Treat it with Creocote or something.

[zoothorn]

19 minutes ago, Onoff said:

Should have bought a laser level like I said...oh look a tenner off now!

 

https://m.clasohlson.com/uk/Cocraft-HL10-S-Cross-Line-Laser-Level/Pr409996000

 

Wouldn't have made any difference/ I couldn't have used it with plinths ~1m difference, & wouldn't have used it here anyway as it didn't need to be super-accurate at this early stage.. plus it doesn't make writing down figures magically correct themselves either. A level's perfectly fine for the job, once I get to this levelling stage which I assume is to do with packing/ shimming xyz once the frame is made: I'm a month away from this.

 

I need to think how I can lay the beams directly on the (upper) plinths & protect them as best I can possibly do. My pro chap mentioned dpm-?

Edited September 24, 2019 by zoothorn

[Onoff]

1 hour ago, zoothorn said:

Wouldn't have made any difference/ I couldn't have used it with plinths ~1m difference

 

You can lead a horse to water is the phrase I think!

 

You could have used a laser if they were 2m difference!