Would I be better off providing my own building services ?

[Gimp]

So primarily thinking off stuff like water & electricity. Would I be better off getting a borehole installed & say a lot of solar paneling. Would I save money over using the utilities?

 

The site I am on it will be easy to get hooked up with water as the pipe runs along the length of the property, but would it be cheaper in the long run to get a bore hole in. I am looking to hold onto the property once complete. The site is up on a hillside but just up from a stream in reasonably close proximity (say 2-300 Meters) so I am guessing hitting water is very likely. Just wondered what thoughts may be on this as the way to go?

[ProDave]

You seem to have posted this three times so I have deleted two of them.

 

In general, if mains services are available and the cost of connection is low, then use them. But there is nothing wrong with installing solar PV to supliment a mains supply and reduce your running costs.
 

[Stones]

I would agree with that 100%.  Perfectly possible to have your own water supply but a quick read of this 

 

and previous entries will give a flavour of the work you would be letting yourself in for.

 

Electricity - if you are talking about reducing dependance on the grid using the likes of Solar PV, then yes, it may be worth doing (depends how much it would cost to install, whether you want to make provision for storage), or do you want to be off grid?  If the latter you really have to ask yourself do you really want to be at the mercy of an intermittent supply (Solar PV, wind etc) or have to rely on a back up generator.  

 

Sewage - I would far rather be connected to mains sewage than have a treatment plant.  The novelty of having to inspect and service a treatment plant soon wears off!

[Gimp]

3 hours ago, ProDave said:

You seem to have posted this three times so I have deleted two of them.

 

In general, if mains services are available and the cost of connection is low, then use them. But there is nothing wrong with installing solar PV to supliment a mains supply and reduce your running costs.
 

Thanks for that ProDave, my internet messed up, but ok now I think.

 

Yeah think I'm going to have to check up on the comparative costs. 

[Ferdinand]

13 hours ago, Gimp said:

So primarily thinking off stuff like water & electricity. Would I be better off getting a borehole installed & say a lot of solar paneling. Would I save money over using the utilities?

 

The site I am on it will be easy to get hooked up with water as the pipe runs along the length of the property, but would it be cheaper in the long run to get a bore hole in. I am looking to hold onto the property once complete. The site is up on a hillside but just up from a stream in reasonably close proximity (say 2-300 Meters) so I am guessing hitting water is very likely. Just wondered what thoughts may be on this as the way to go?

 

What type of soil? LEvel of water table?

 

Consider an untreated borehole for the build now and garden later, and a posh one if it becomes viable later.

 

Can you do a simple one, and treat above ground fitted as a stage 2?

 

F

Edited September 24, 2016 by Ferdinand

[Gimp]

12 hours ago, Stones said:

I would agree with that 100%.  Perfectly possible to have your own water supply but a quick read of this 

 

and previous entries will give a flavour of the work you would be letting yourself in for.

 

Electricity - if you are talking about reducing dependance on the grid using the likes of Solar PV, then yes, it may be worth doing (depends how much it would cost to install, whether you want to make provision for storage), or do you want to be off grid?  If the latter you really have to ask yourself do you really want to be at the mercy of an intermittent supply (Solar PV, wind etc) or have to rely on a back up generator.  

 

Sewage - I would far rather be connected to mains sewage than have a treatment plant.  The novelty of having to inspect and service a treatment plant soon wheres off!

Yeah, that's seriously more Science than I would wish for, lol.

 

I think this sounds like a project in its own right, perhaps if you're a science guy less so, but for me I think would be too much to deal with along with the build so better to leave that as a possible project for afterwards and just connect up to the mains in the interim and see how happy I am with that.

 

From a brief skim read of the link you gave it sounds like I could just end up paying a lot and risk pumping up a load of sludge. So best taking my time over that one and investigating what it may yield first I think when/if I get to it.

 

 

Sewage was never really an option for me, as I won't really have the space for a septic tank and will not be worth the hassle even if I found space I think. There's a sewer too that runs along the front of the property with the water pipes so happy to use that I think.

 

 

PV Solar panels is definitely an option and will probably not be too difficult for me. There are some trees fairly near by but I think the height of the building will be enough to make any shading effect from them negligible. In Wales on a hillside here so longer term may consider small wind turbine. I'm thinking the trees, other buildings & slope of the hill will probably not be too bad in terms of wind turbulence if I get it high enough on the roof, but will have to check at the time I think. 

[SteamyTea]

How much would your water and waste cost.  Down here in the SW it is very expensive and having noticed that the water table is about 10m down, it may be worth me getting a borehole.  Thing is I would still have to pay for sewage, which is over half my "water" costs.

 

With PV (or most RE systems), there is a lot of talk about how much energy it produces over a year.  This is all well and good, but it is delivering that energy that is important.

A basic 4 kWp system very really produces enough power to boil a 3 kW kettle on its own.  Over a year though it could produce enough energy to boil a kettle for 1100 hours or about 3 hours a day (more than enough for even me).

So it is good for offsetting, but not good for living with.  This is why they are grid connected.

 

[Gimp]

5 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

 

What type of soil? LEvel of water table?

 

Consider an untreated borehole for the build now and garden later, and a posh one if it becomes viable later.

 

Can you do a simple one, and treat above ground fitted as a stage 2?

 

F

Apparently its a clay/sand mix of soil, will have to verify this soon though with a dig to confirm. No idea on water table level yet. Looked on the British Geological Survey website and they seem to indicate a moderate yield of water from aquifer possible, but some contamination from coal mining possible (though no coal mining directly under my site. So yeah a project needing more in depth study at the time I think.

[Ferdinand]

Perhaps compare borehole cost to solar PoV plus a Sunsmp.

[Gimp]

Well, looks like I will be with Welsh Water that are about the third most expensive in the country even though they are run by a not for profit company.

 

Guess I could always have borehole supply non-drinking water and then just buy in bottles of mineral water in big bottles, good idea?

[Ferdinand]

PErhaps model your water usage potable vs non-potable eg do you have a big garden that needs water to get a scientific gut feel.

 

Or replace the swimming pool with a natural swimming hole filled with borehole water... !

 

Ferdinand

[ProDave]

Up here in Scotland, water is still charged as a percentage of your council tax, I pay a little under £300 per year for water. It is not metered.  We would pay a similar amount for mains sewage if it was available.

 

Present house has a septic tank, and we get it de sludged every 2 or 3 years at a cost of £187 this year, so in theory that's cheaper than a mains connection but probably similar when you factor in paying for the capital cost of the system.
 

[PeterW]

2 hours ago, Gimp said:

Well, looks like I will be with Welsh Water that are about the third most expensive in the country even though they are run by a not for profit company.

 

Guess I could always have borehole supply non-drinking water and then just buy in bottles of mineral water in big bottles, good idea?

 

Most of the water used in a house is for flushing toilets, not for drinking. 

 

Look seriously at rainwater harvesting - in Wales on a hillside you will have plenty of that I expect ..!! 

 

I've designed a fairly simple system using 3/4 2nd hand IBCs buried in the ground, some black MDPE and fittings and a jet pump with a pair of filters and it comes to around £300 for the bits. Payback is 2 years at that rate and  it's easily installed. There are no fancy automated systems, just a low water alarm that is only there to allow me to put a couple of hundred litres in the tank with a hose. 

[Gimp]

3 hours ago, PeterW said:

 

Most of the water used in a house is for flushing toilets, not for drinking. 

 

Look seriously at rainwater harvesting - in Wales on a hillside you will have plenty of that I expect ..!! 

 

I've designed a fairly simple system using 3/4 2nd hand IBCs buried in the ground, some black MDPE and fittings and a jet pump with a pair of filters and it comes to around £300 for the bits. Payback is 2 years at that rate and  it's easily installed. There are no fancy automated systems, just a low water alarm that is only there to allow me to put a couple of hundred litres in the tank with a hose. 

Thanks, Peter that sounds like a good idea, funny I was just looking at the previous outline planning permission granted on my plot, design & access statement and that what one of the proposals was there for a 2700 litre underground rainwater harvesting tank. It looks far the preferable option. I've looked on a site and it looks like you can get filters for them, do you think this would be a good idea, not necessarily for drinking but for doing washing up, washing machine, etc so there by decreasing the amount of water company water used? Assuming here that its a meter you use rather than the set fee? 

[PeterW]

The only uses for rainwater - even filtered - are for outside taps, WCs and washing machines. Anything else that could potentially be used for food such as dishwashers and drinking water (including showers) must be treated properly or be from a certified source. 

 

Look look at wildec.de for cheap 10" filter housings.  If you bury an IBC well it doesn't need any algae treatment as it doesn't get sunlight but I plan to "shock" the tanks if needed with a few chlorine tabs which cost pennies. 

 

If you filter at the downpipes it makes life much easier too - there are lots of very easy and simple filters out there that can be made with ordinary parts as in tank filters can be incredibly expensive 

[Gimp]

18 minutes ago, PeterW said:

The only uses for rainwater - even filtered - are for outside taps, WCs and washing machines. Anything else that could potentially be used for food such as dishwashers and drinking water (including showers) must be treated properly or be from a certified source. 

 

Look look at wildec.de for cheap 10" filter housings.  If you bury an IBC well it doesn't need any algae treatment as it doesn't get sunlight but I plan to "shock" the tanks if needed with a few chlorine tabs which cost pennies. 

 

If you filter at the downpipes it makes life much easier too - there are lots of very easy and simple filters out there that can be made with ordinary parts as in tank filters can be incredibly expensive 

Thanks Peter, it certainly gives me something to look into doing, save the water bill from rising too steeply, many thanks.

[Gimp]

6 hours ago, ProDave said:

Up here in Scotland, water is still charged as a percentage of your council tax, I pay a little under £300 per year for water. It is not metered.  We would pay a similar amount for mains sewage if it was available.

 

Present house has a septic tank, and we get it de sludged every 2 or 3 years at a cost of £187 this year, so in theory that's cheaper than a mains connection but probably similar when you factor in paying for the capital cost of the system.
 

Is that just the septic tank itself you need, or is there a big system attached to it? I think I vaguely recall they use them in France a lot in the countryside but it comes with a bit of a field type of system to purify it or something. 

[PeterW]

If you are away from mains sewage then you will need a packaged treatment plant - still needs an effluent drain field but better than a septic tank. 

 

Don't forget that reducing your water intake reduces your sewage bill as they only meter what comes in...

[Gimp]

1 hour ago, PeterW said:

If you are away from mains sewage then you will need a packaged treatment plant - still needs an effluent drain field but better than a septic tank. 

 

Don't forget that reducing your water intake reduces your sewage bill as they only meter what comes in...

Unfortunately, will have nowhere near the room for a packaged treatment plant/effluent drain field. A septic tank I might have room for as looks just a bit bigger than a rain harvesting tank depending on chosen size. Does the septic tank deal with it all internally? I would have thought it would get filled up quick.

[ProDave]

A septic tank and a treatment plant are pretty much the same size. Both have to be used with an infiltration field or something similar to dispose of the liquid effluent. Because the effluent from a treatment plant is a LOT cleaner, it only requires a smaller infiltration field.  I would not install a septic tank now (indeed in my new house I have a treatment plant) I was just giving the septic tank as an example as that's what we have in the present house.

 

 

The self contained thing you are thinking of is a cess pit, but they are not allowed now and need very frequent emptying.

 

Sometimes you can get permission to have an infiltration field in adjoining land, our present house has that under the field at the back of us, and if you have a watercourse you might get permission to discharge into that.
 

[mafaldina]

Recycled roof water makes sense if one is on mains sewage (Steamy its 2/3 of your bill), less so if one has private sewage. I have a metered house with 3 of us living in it, at least one shower/bath a day each, sometimes more if my son is milking (cows are mucky, plastic parlour clothes are sweaty). Washing machine on at least once a day, dishwasher every one and a half. My bill is around £200 a year, in Cornwall. I do use roof water for the cows though.

[PeterW]

Anything other than a cesspit needs a leachfield - and a cesspit basically needs emptying every couple of months so it's not cheap ..!

 

do you have mains sewerage near ...??

[Crofter]

Sewage treatment 101:

- mains drainage. A pipe connects you to the public sewer.

- cess pit. Your pipe goes into a big tank that fills up and gets emptied by a tanker. Big running costs, may not get approval (banned in Scotland).

- septic tank + soakaway. The tank does a basic 'primary' breakdown and the watery outflow is discharged to ground where it should be broken down by bacteria in the soil. Standard option for off-mains drainage for many years but these days significasntly better performance achieved by...

- treatment plant + soakaway. This is still a tank and a discharge field, but the tank has some active systems to introduce oxygen into the contents, achieving a much higher degree of breakdown. The soakaway field is allowed to be only 75% of the size of a septic tank one. A useful reduction, but probably not enough to make the difference to whether or not you can fit a soakaway on your plot.

 

Oh and also:

- a filter mound soakaway can replace a conventional one, in areas of high water table

- a Puraflo peat-fibre system can also do the job of a soakaway in a much smaller area, again suitable for high water table areas

- reed beds can also be incorporated but I can't claim any knowledge of these systems myself.

[PeterW]

There's now a vertical borehole soak away for really tight spaces but not sure how it works ...

[Gimp]

27 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Anything other than a cesspit needs a leachfield - and a cesspit basically needs emptying every couple of months so it's not cheap ..!

 

do you have mains sewerage near ...??

Yes, runs right in front of the plot on the road, so this is looking my best bet as the alternatives I do not have the room for but worth exploring just in case.

 

The Rainwater harvesting still looks a goer to me, thinking of perhaps using a UV filter for bathing & shower water to make it more worthwhile. Just have the kitchen sink & bathroom basins as water from the water company as its drinking water so has to be to standard.