Ground assessment. Pre or post purchase?

[howplum]

I have found a local plot, with Planning Permission, and agreed a price with the seller. However, one of the conditions imposed by Milton Keynes Council (MKC) is:

 

"Prior to any development taking place, the developer shall carry out an assessment of ground conditions to determine the liklihood of any ground, groundwater or gas contamination of the site."

 

It then goes on to explain that any remedial work will have to be approved by MKC and carried out to their written satisfaction.

 

I have received a quotation to carry out such an assessment, which would be in two parts. The first phase consists of a site walkover and desk study, and this costs £700 plus VAT.

 

In the quotation, the following comment is made:

 

"As the site was a residential garden, it may only require the Phase 1 report. However, there seems to be an electrical sub-station close by, so may need soil testing and risk assessment". I assume the inference is that there may be underground electricy cables, although I need to ask what triggers the requirement for the additional tests.

 

This extra testing would cost another £1,000, plus VAT, so potentially £2,040 in total.

 

The seller has not complied with this condition, as far as I am aware, so my question is: should this be done before  I sign on the dotted line?

 

Is the ground surveyor's report likely to be full of caveats, bearing in mind the acid test is when the groundwork contractors actually start work.

[Moonshine]

6 minutes ago, howplum said:

The seller has not complied with this condition, as far as I am aware...

 

 I assume the inference is that there may be underground electricity cables, although I need to ask what triggers the requirement for the additional tests.

 

Are you sure, has the seller actually commenced the development? this is a pre-commencement condition so needs to be done before the development is started.

 

It could be that the seller has got the planning permission and is just selling on the plot without even commencing works. 

 

The ground condition survey won't tell you were underground electricity cables would be, the thing with the substation is that they have oil in them, if the substation leaked at anytime / now it could contaminate the soil.

 

If you want to know where the underground electricity cables are, you can't get this information from free as you don't own the plot, but you could ask the seller if he has this information, or can obtain it from the local power providers or https://www.linesearchbeforeudig.co.uk/

 

Edited June 19, 2019 by Moonshine

[PeterW]

24 minutes ago, howplum said:

assume the inference is that there may be underground electricy cables, although I need to ask what triggers the requirement for the additional tests.

 

It will be more to check for oil and hydrocarbon contamination. Transformers can go bang, and they then leak a lot of oil. That’s ground contamination and that’s what they may be inferring. 

[Bitpipe]

GI are usually fairly risk adverse and will identify any potential issues, however remote.

 

We are 100m from a historical gravel pit, since infilled in the late 1800s and now with a 1990's 'exec' housing estate on top but it still nearly derailed my project as some anomalous test results were interpreted as potentially made ground requiring piling etc. (never mind the associated archaeological condition as neolithic fragments were found in said site when the estate was built).

 

We had to re-do the testing, all results were clear and when we actually excavated the basement it was pure clay, gravel and chalk as expected.

 

Turns out original overseeing engineer had cocked up and was subsequently let go but I still had to pay twice.

 

If the site is a former garden then you're probably fine - the substation would need to be leaking some to contaminate your site.

 

BTW, for contamination testing, you normally only send in one sample, representative of the area you are disturbing - ie footprint of house.

 

£1000 sounds excessive - I'm sure you can get it much, much cheaper if you take the sample yourself - may not satisfy the LA but will reassure you if all clear or give you negotiation leverage if not

 

Can you get access to site and surreptitiously take a few small samples? You don't need to go very deep - just get below the top organic layer.

 

[Moonshine]

3 minutes ago, Bitpipe said:

£1000 sounds excessive - I'm sure you can get it much, much cheaper if you take the sample yourself - may not satisfy the LA but will reassure you if all clear or give you negotiation leverage if not

 

This was my thoughts too, as with sampling you are really paying for the person to come to site and take the sample, and it is an external lab that does the analysis. @Bitpipe do you know the procedure for sampling, and who does the analysis for soil contamination testing?

 

As an example, for my site i was asked to do some air quality monitoring, after a bit of reading up on the subject and chatting with the EHO, they set out what they wanted, and i was able to do the AQ monitoring myself based on the required methodology, with samples sent off to an external lab for analysis. Doing this, I was able to satisfy the air quality monitoring requirement for under £50, rather than paying someone to come to site and set up equipment and write a short report. 

 

[Temp]

If the seller has started development can you still claim the CIL self build exemption (which has to be claimed before work starts on site)?

 

I forget if someone has already found the answer to this.

[Russell griffiths]

If you are concerned about cables under the plot, you need to find that out ASAP 

a large electricity cable could be a large amount of cash to move. 

[ToughButterCup]

Consider getting the suggested Phase 1 Study done: a study which looks at existing data and makes a judgement on the extent to which a detailed study needs to be done.

 

That means (among other things) a look at historical maps of the area : hopefully not of any real relevance to your case. In ours, the local area had some 'quarrying' for clay (at the end of the century before last) and that was felt to be sufficiently relevant to require further investigation. ( See @Bitpipe's post above).

 

A  hard look at the site, even a moderately expensive one, is a very useful risk reduction exercise. And when you're about to spend a good chunk of money anyway, it rankles a bit more than normal. The data thrown up by our survey was useful (required documentation, even) on several occasions.

At the time of the survey, we had no idea how crucial the documentation would become.  

 

Before you do any of the above, it might be wise to get definitive answers to the following questions;

• Has work started at the site? Yes or No.
• If yes, then why has the Condition not been met? What constitutes 'start of works' locally?  
• If work has not started, how long has (Outline?) PP been in force. What that really means is, how close to the three year commencement threshold (for starting work)  is the plot. The closer to the 3 year time limit, the more bargaining power you have.
• What proportion of your budget is the site investigation? Is £3000 worth worrying about? Or will that cost ruin other plans?

Good luck

Ian

[Bitpipe]

3 hours ago, Moonshine said:

 

This was my thoughts too, as with sampling you are really paying for the person to come to site and take the sample, and it is an external lab that does the analysis. @Bitpipe do you know the procedure for sampling, and who does the analysis for soil contamination testing?

 

Normally goes to a 3rd party lab. 

 

A quick google found this - https://www.ecofficiency.co.uk/waste-soil-sample-testing-kit

 

They have a mail order kit for £55 (courier collected) and the tests cost from £125 for basic WAC classification to £225 for more detailed analysis.

 

I'm sure there are others.

 

WAC testing is used to classify spoil for disposal/landfill, we did it for our basement and it was considered inert which is the cheapest outcome.

[howplum]

Thank you all for your responses.

 

The Planning Permission's 3 year period expires in February 2020 and development has not yet started. The reason for the delay is that although I agreed to buy the plot in September last year a very small part of it belongs to the Government, so the seller is trying to buy that piece, because it is key to the viability of the site.  I did raise a topic last year about this scenario, but we are no further forward, due to problems at the Government Property Office.

 

The seller's plan was to start the development by putting in a small stretch of footing, but the problem I see with that is he will still have to comply with the condition about a contamination assessment, as well as the one about getting the external materials approved.  However, apparently he has now been told by his architect that the PP could be extended, although having had a quick look on the internet there seem to be a lot of "ifs" and "buts" attached to that approach.

 

In any event, I do not wish to use the approved plans, so if the seller is compelled to reapply, we need to come to an arrangement, because I will have to engage a professional to draw up plans for submission, which will take several weeks/months and cost a pretty penny no doubt. Obviously I don't want to spend a lot of money unless the plot is "in the bag".

 

Since writing the original post I have spoken to three different companies about a contamination assessment, all of whom were substantially more expensive that the one I mentioned. However, it did seem that a Phase 1 desk study would be sufficiently detailed enough to act as a pre-purchase report, although probably not enough to satisfy the local council.