Ferdinand

IMO you need advice from an experienced local who knows the Council policies better than the Council do. My usual suggestion is either the most experienced qualified person at an independent Estate Agency or planning consultancy (10 years local experience) or someone who has won several similar PPs locally. You can do things ranging from an informal conversation for 10 minutes in the shop to half a day or a day of their time with a short report. Key things are that you have a one page brief outlining your questions and requirements for their work. My suggestion is to pay as you will then engage formal professional confidentiality etc. You will be into a quality specific design (depending on what "local listing" means and what their criteria are), potentially several expert reports (eg prove it is not in the SPA belt, archie the -ologost for graves and history, traffic etc). Could easily be 5k-10k or perhaps a lot more before you get (or are refused) PP. I would also want funding in place for an Appeal, as you could be affected by local politics. You need to be able to afford to lose this sum. "Curtiledge of a listed dwelling" is - I suspect rather naughty / misleading if it is only a 'noted' building in the Council records not the EH listing database. That looks like a locally wished limitation, which will be less authoritative. Check it. I would say consider bungalows as a possibility too, and remember that you need to preserve the amenity of the church. On finance, you may be able to fund against the plot once you have PP, or reach a deal with a developer/builder to build both / you keep one. Alternatively, given probable price increases over 5 years, equity release and a bigger mortgage on your existing property might be the way to fund it (5 year fix?). I spent a couple of hours reading about the Thames SPA once, and the extra (3k?) charges to be visited on eg PPs in a chunk of Farnham. The fascinatingly awful thing was that it seems to take far less evidence to create an SPA than would justify the extra imposed costs to build a house there afterwards. I seem to recall a tiny population of woodlarks that had not actually been counted for quite a few years yet a huge piece of territory was blighted on that basis. I would love to have an update. Ferdinand

Alexander Pope: My thoughts (not advice): 1 - 6k is not really a lot if you get into consultants and process. eg a QC is perhaps 3-5k for a start if they are representing you. The best way to get a cheap QC or legal bod who can go toe to toe on this is probably to marry one, or be very closely connected in the profession. 2 - There *may* be an arguable case, but it is possible you are the wrong side of the deadline.Or on what may currently be the wrong side of one of several different dates. But I think you are in the position of asking your former wife to return part of a divorce settlement because you think the law says you overpaid. As a Council I would respond with a polite version of "prove it, buster". 3. Bit more background: http://www.selfbuildportal.org.uk/sources-of-finance/7-information/301-cil-s106-exemptions https://www.homebuilding.co.uk/what-is-section-106/ 4. Were I to try and tackle this, the only way I would consider economic to attempt for 6k would be: a - A carefully argued letter to the Council, perhaps from a solicitor, arguing that the S106 was not applicable because Appeal Judgement etc. I might try and argue that since the money was obtained unlawfully (according to me), it is unlawful for the Council to spend it. b - Appeal, which is free. Deadline gone. c - A reapplication for planning would cost a chunk of the 6k and swallow time and elapsed time, though could potentially be done with the same documents. Could be elephant traps if you have started building. In conclusion, it may perhaps be worth a run around the houses to see where you are. Perhaps ask the free RICS Planning Advice service or ask a Planning Law blogger (Martin Goodall?) to do an article on the issue. IMO it will be an academic exercise, but perhaps you want to satisfy your curiosity. My opinion: In the absence of a clear legal justification and validity (which requires some homework), and a cheap way of enforcing it, this is probably not worth the candle .. short of a couple of long shots I have suggested. Take a punt if you wish, but remember to put your main effort into your house and life. But personally I think 5-6k or say a few % of build cost is quite reasonable to ask of self-builders as a community contribution. I will wish metallic-sodium-in-the-bath on Councils attempting to take the pee (hello Shropshire a couple of years ago) at say 10-25% of project value, but I do not think we should have a complete opt-out. Ferdinand

I was sure I put something about surprised looking cats and pencil sharpeners on this thread. Perhaps I didn't or didn't push the button or it evanished. Anyhoo. It does exist. *Edited* I think in the interests of forum decorum I may remove this later. Just in case someone is self-building a cat sanctuary. * Apparently the diamond brand is Twinkle Tush.

If it was only 5-10 ukp extra each, I might be inclined to stump up. That is only hundreds extra for the house and that is not a lot for items we see all the time. Compare that with cost of slightly posher windows or a steam oven because we have a thing about mitres on the corners or cooking equipment. Ferdinand

Just to illustrate, in slightly different circumstances talking to people may kill your proposal stone dead. An example is trees. If a neighbour wishes to stop your development he can ask the Tree Officer to put a Preservation Order on a Tree under the guise of protecting a community asset, and the TO may or may not do it. If they do, then you have restrictions, and conditions as to what you can do. May be OK; may not be OK. It may not stop you, but it may add thousands. Equally if you have considered in advance you may have decided which trees you wish to retain, and removed the others. IN that case they are not 'Materiql Planning Matters'. But even removing them will be a cost, and you may still not get permission. You are in those circs dependent on the goodwill of your neighbours, and who the particular TO may be, and possibly whether they have just been bawled out by a Councillor in the local paper for not protecting enough trees in the last month. There is a derelict house with about 7 TPOs on the half acre garden near here, which has been empty since the mid 1980s, and cannot be realistically developed while the trees are still there. It should have had 5 houses on it 15 years ago. They have now at last been removed under Dead Decaying Dangerous provisions aiui and it can move ahead. So it is in some measure a cross between poker and a lottery. You can mitigate, and derisk, and find advisers, and learn some tactics and techniques to help decisions go the way you want, and know what your local policies are on matters like technicalities and locals Housing mix required and go out of your way to meet all the policies so making reasons for refusal more difficult to find. But it is not certain, and otoh you may have no problems at all. Question to others: is there a good chapter on this in the House Builders' Bible we can recommend? I struggle with the book because my copy is like reading a Microdot, and I cannot find a Kindle version. Ferdinand

I cannot comment on Le Grand and standard boxes, but they are big so probably are compliant.

Unfortunately there are far too many approaches, tips, tricks and wrinkles to relist here , and I do not think we have them in one place codified. And they vary by Council. So you will need to dig into the forum for the detail. One thing I can recommend is the support files on the Planning Portsl website, and the Planning Advice service run by RICS. I have comments on scores of threads, but to codify them would literally write a book. Ferdinand

Oops.

@gimp you just cannot tell how long it will take for definite. Best estimate is probably found by reading similar apps from your own LPA but things can change e.g. You may hit the hurt-spot of a Councillor or their buddy who then calls it in to committee.

Try Le Grand. When we did a sharp modern renovation on a Studio Bungalow in approx 2011-12 the architect specified them on the basis that they covered everything. Stylish and have innovative options. A huge range so you will need to take time. https://www.legrand.co.uk/projects/residential/ https://www.legrand.co.uk/products/wiring-devices/wiring-accessories/ http://blog.yaleappliance.com/bid/88824/The-10-Best-Legrand-Adorne-Wall-Switches-Dimmers-Prices-Reviews Ferdinand

Checked and none in Scotland, while there are in E & W. There was a consultation in 2011: http://www.checkmate.uk.com/resources_pressreleases_scotland_retains_local_authorities_as_only_verifiers303.asp

This may interest some, as background data. An analysis of NHBC claims- unfortunately it is 2010 data, but I cannot find anything more recent: http://www.nhbc.co.uk/NewsandComment/enewsAug10TC/filedownload,41322,en.pdf

That has to be a "no", surely. It would require the relevant certification to be within the "zone", unless it was 12v. F

In the circs, in England (is this devolved?) there would seem to be a potential market opportunity for "100% inspection" .. if it could be hgh on the priority of customers (see EPCs and energy saving!). What is the position in Scotland and Wales? Are Private Building Inspectors available? Fishing for evidence, so we have similar "cases" from SWNI? Flying a kite: could 100% inspection be a Planning Condition? The six rules say a PC must be: On the surface, that is a "maybe" to me. That would not address the "Private Inspector" issue, however. Ferdinand

It is a very mature setting, isn't it, the huts having been there for nearly a century(?) ? In which case, I think it could be down to management of mature trees in the areas where there is a risk, particularly those at the end of their lifecycle. Wildcard: Does the Scottish Government have money available to help hutters with continuing costs? Given their desire to reform landholding etc it would not surprise me. Ferdinand

Trying to build a timeline. AIUI Private Building Inspectors came in in the 1980s under Thatcher Reforms (together with more acceptance of increased fees etc). Possibly 1984 Building Act. Can you point me to the Regs that control the "sample size" of inspection? Thanks Ferdinand

Where are the inspection requirements driven from in housing? is there eg delegated legislation that can be amended? I would be quite happy to write to my MP on this. Can a local authority decide to inspect more estate houses more thoroughly off their own bat? IIRC the services are supposed to be run on a cost-recovery basis so scope may exist. (Aside: what is the equivalent quality for social / council housing - I have horror stories of repairs etc in that sector, and in people breaking things so eg they get a new 'x'. This could easily turn into private bad ... public good if the politicoes get a hold of the issue). Do we know how recent this is .. is the start date say coming out of the recession when pressure was deliberately relaxed, and we can argue it now needs to be back on since the volume is well on the way to recovering?

I am pleased to see the media taking this up. How to fix it? I think we need some institutionalised detailed analysis of defects along the lines of "Show Stopper, Important, Urgent" (borrowing from time management ideas but I recall that manufacturing industry has some good schemes for classification). I am concerned that "98% had some defect" rhetoric would lead to a general demonisation rather than cost-effective improvement. We need to distnguish between a missing light-bulb and missing insulation. Others will argue that a general demonsiation is what is needed. We could have a "lemon law" right-to-reject? But that would not work in a supply restricted market. We could have a rebates law for fixing faults, but that could potentially would weaken suppliers (a good thing?) - and would potentially open opportunities for fixers to price-gouge. What do we need to be arguing for with our politicians? It needs 2 or 3 points that can be done easily, understandably and now. There are quite some hundreds of local Councillor seats up for grabs in May ... and some County Councils may be changing hands eg Derbyshire. I am teetering ever closer to starting a real blog again :-) . Ferdinand

For me I assume. I have not taken up the tiles so cannot comment authoritatively but that is my assumption, and there is electric ufh which would aggravate temperature cycling. We are living with it until we partly redo the bathroom in a year or two - and in fact one inexpensive option would be simply to vinyl over the top wit a thicker than usual foam underlay. However the adjacent landing is chipboard and I am thinking it will be the same stuff, since there are a few signs of some corner-cutting elsewhere, or perhaps a realisation that extra spending would not be reflected in sale price. I really can't fault people for being prudent, but this one did not work. Ferdinand

@jackI think it is a different thing, but I have floor tiles cracked in my bathroom on 8"x4" lines. I think the cause is the use of the wrong type of chipboard to cut a corner (ie the same chipboard as the other upstairs rooms), which has swelled. I can post photos if you like. Ferdinand

Suddenly one sees the attraction of ICF :-)

When all added in £2.00 per length of CLS. Just under £13.00 per 18mm OSB3 sheet 25 off plus delivery. As it happens I am dry lining so my 1220 x 2440 vs slightly smaller celotex 1200 x 2400 sizes should fit exactly with 38mm CLS while 45mm should be too tight. Famous last words perhaps ! Interested to hear of any better prices. I think that is OK but It can always be improved. I couldn't find a way to get the 50mm celotex sheets much below £20 so that will probably be a delivery from the big two, since I reckon I may need well over 50. Given sheds, a better offer may be along tomorrow. Round here, B&Q are making a serious effort to compete on price with Wickes, which is relatively new - but I have been caught out a couple of times with items not turning out to have the the Trade Discount be applicable. B&Q do do free delivery on bulky items over £250, which Wickes do not, though. F

Just flying a kite to see if anyone has done similar, and with which suppliers. This evening I ordered a quantity of CLS (200 off 38 x 63mm x 2.4m) and OSB3 from Wickes, because my local branch had a special 15% discount running until the end of March following a shop refurbishment and related confusion. And to avoid any imminent price rises. With Wickes, because their CLS tends to be banana shaped after moving from the yard to the retail floor and changing with temperature and moisture (I assume), I like to go in first thing and choose the straight ones for the guys to fit that day or the next. This time I have not quite exchanged on the bungalow to be renovated, so they said I could pay now and collect as needed over several weeks, and would just put a tally on the chitty each time. I won't take the P and will pick up 30-40 at a time, and make sure it is cleared in 3 weeks. Has anybody else done this at other outlets? What were the arrangements? it seems useful - though it may just be my local branch doing me a favour and locking in The business. Ferdinand

I have not reached a view yet, but i do wonder about the impact of complex control systems on the next owners of a house. I have seen some on BH that would scare me off from buying as my perspective is that really I just want something I can leave alone except for twice a year, and has no moving parts if possible - while delivering perhaps 80-90% of the performance that would be achievable by adjusting very often. I think that a degree of complexity delivers, but that then needs a maintenance and repair strategy that is sufficiently simple that will last the lifetime of the system. Alternatively there could, I suppose, be an easy "strip drown and simplify" strategy for when it comes to be sold. For me, buying custom controllers from China, whether with custom code or not, may be a step too far. I appreciate that many on BH build with a "house for life" (*) expectation so that does not apply. Ferdinand * (Favourite anecdote.) Or, as Lord Morris of Castle Morris put it in the early 1990s after he bought Foolow Manor in Derbyshire in preparation for retirement: "I have bought a small manor house in Derbyshire to decline and die in" - and he did. Matthew Parris is now doing something similar.

Will the garden room have its own bathroom? What about a hot tub and big TV? That would keep them out there.