saveasteading

Stock piling is seldom a good idea. It ends up being in the way, at risk of damage from operations and the weather, and needing double handling. Nearer to the time of need, ask the BM if any increases are forecast, and maybe avoid 10% cost and store for a few weeks. But I did this recently with insulation. And we had to shift it to suit a change in plan. The handling cost prob equalled the 10% saving. Then there is cashflow. The VAT cost is sitting there needlessly. Spend your time in saving material altogether, through design reviews and planning.

Last resort.. read the instructions if you can find them.

The work is very rough and it will have gaps too. I too suggest a complete repointing and a paint over. I like Blackjack as it is easy to use and fills the gaps. Although it is a very basic and plain material I've never known anyone dislike it, as they should be noticing the nice structure above.

Yes and no. This would need very detailed consideration and a site survey, just to give this preliminary advice. After you have had it, may be the time to ask on here for other ideas, which a good SE will be happy to discuss. But do be aware that the term 'raft' is used to mean different things to different people. Do you mean a heavily reinforced slab that could span over soft spots and support structural walls, or simply a concrete floor?

indeed. and it is the contractor who would be in very big trouble for not declaring the income. The IR know when annual returns look imbalanced and the VAT computer spots anomalies too. Plus taxes do have a purpose. That customer is probably going through life complaining about government services, and the brown envelope brigade because that is what they would do. 'How much for cash in hand?' Oh just allow a 5% handling charge.

Agreed. Just my hunch, but allowing it to settle may give other, less aerobic, bugs an opportunity to prosper.

Forever. There are still the 3 chambers separating and breaking down the contents. These aerators were only introduced about 20 years ago and do make it more efficient, but it works regardless. The caveat would be if you are using at capacity, or there is rainwater connecting into it. Most domestic situations have a tank sized for thee maximum occupancy. This ,might not apply to the klargesters with a wheel going round.. that might get quite gungy.

We know that people often do what suits themselves rather than society. Some might leave their bins on the roadside permanently, or on a shared drive. If the bins can't readily be wheeled up the drive then they will be left at the road. The planners have one chance to optimise the design for the good of us all.

Have a Google. To my surprise there is a lot of info thereon. I'd have to find my training documents to see the detail. 1/3 or 1/4, and it probably doesn't matter which. I think the point is that the bolts shouldn't be stressed to capacity in everyday, passive mode, and so a load from wind etc doesn't then overstress it. That would apply also to pulling out a resin anchor or rawlpug etc. This will not apply to engines etc. which is a different world.

Worse is cement and concrete. There's a barrow on site with a lot of concrete in it and collapsed against the wheel. It wasn't my lovely barrow fortunately but it seems to be mine now, to get rid of. Subbies will nearly always look after their own stuff better than yours. They will request plant that they wouldn't hire themselves, and better than they need. Then they will let the use, and hire, drift. BUT sometimes the right kit will do in minutes what will take hours without. What do you want, why, and for how long? Then you manage its use and condition.

NO. I was involved with a sophisticated steel building system for many years. They were very strict about not overtightening and not using a torque wrench. It puts an unnecessary stress into the threads and the bolt into tension. It is known as "turn of the nut". Turn on to get a snug fit without noticeable effort. Then use effort to achieve 1/4 rotation. One heave on a big spanner basically. I will try to find whether it's 1/3 or 1/4. This applies only for steel and would not apply if the components were in good condition. The supplier wouldn't discuss if there had been previous problems, but it was clearly a big deal. Some erectors complained as they liked to use macho kit. Most accepted it. I did it myself on many foundation nuts. I think being feeble meant I got it right, but it was tempting to try to go tighter.

Exactly. There are chances and hassles I'll take on for a personal project, whereas for a client I'd accept the norm. I've been challenging the easy norms for decades. It results in better knowledge, the good ideas becoming standard details then improving every project thereafter. The bad ideas rejected and knowing why. Back to the original post. We don't want heat loss from the hot pipe, especially to the cold pipe. I considered the @SimonDproposal for a bit, using the insulated pipes in a duct... if it ever failed they could be pulled out and replaced with uninsulated pipes. This could be a good standard method where there doesn't happen to be 300mm of insulation. But the 2 subbies are now on board my way so it will go alright. I've even found 2 lengths of so-called barrier pipe with the magic layer of coloured plastic... it's just normal pipe. The guidance above is sensible. Building moves and pipe fails? wont happen: each pipe will be continuous so no joints. They can move within the eps. They are 150mm below the screed so won't be screwed into. The ends will be apparent as the pipes will pop up into view. If ever the pipe needed changing, there is tile, screed pir.... not destructive. I know this is ott, but we have this opportunity to exceed expectations. As for the bco... they trust us. We welcome any query. When we adopt novel approaches we explain. If necessary we present it formally for their files. Only my time has been expended and I am foc And your time for which thanks

Such an important bit of advice. Most bolts are overtightened.

Yes I assume this is the concern. I can't see much chance of a failure if the pipes have no joints where they run under the floor. And the insulation provides a slip layer and cover. And at worst, it is not structure but tiles over thin screed over pir. I can see why it's a pig to install whatever we do, and why heat loss will be low on some people's concern list. Not much chance of removing the island though: it is decided at a higher level.... and they do like the idea of cold being cold, and hot being hot. For my interest... hypothetically, if 2 uninsulated pipes were in a duct and one had to be replaced... could they be pulled out and new ones dragged through?

That would preclude them being threaded through studs and joists, and behind boards, fitted units....

Thanks, I'll check these out. It's not me who says to use barrier pipe... it's the others.

'Embedded' to me means locked solid in concrete or masonry. ie there could be differential stresses that could break the pipe or a joint, and cause water damage. That is sensible.

I've done a nice sketch. the verdict? OTT and not what was anticipated, but OK. And the pipe is to be 'barrier' pipe!. I've looked at suppliers in Hep2O and Flomasta (Screwfix) . They both describe the option of barrier pipe but never mention what they mean by it. I guess it's just that if people want to ask for that , then let's use the words and sell it. JG Speedfit BPex from Toolsation says this: The pipe is made of five layers, and in the centre is a coloured oxygen barrier to prevent the ingress of air into the system - this reduces the effect of corrosion on metal components. But if eps is ever found to emit chemicals or death-rays then the colured layer of the barrier pipe will be there. Phew. It's only going to cost an extra few £ so I'll let it go. Hep2O say theirs comes off the coil straight, which must be good thing.

Agreed. It looks fine, but not widely stocked.

I was hoping you might respond. That's pretty well what I had in mind so, by default, is correct! I will draw a proposal and send it to our m & e guy, to ask if there are any problems with it, and will he supply the pipes or otherwise tell us what to embed. As I see it, we lay the 150mm eps, then lay the pipes on top, parallel and about 100mm apart. Whether the pipes will tread into the eps or need notches, we will see. Then pir on top. If we had thinner insulation I'd use 2 layers locally. Where the pipes need to emerge we will box around so the pir is no screened and is exposed for cutting out.... so marking out the runs will be essential. @SimonD your links have been interesting. The product looks good but seems mainly to be for ufh. Where it is aimed at domestic water feeds the thing that bothered me, on reflection, was the long waffly statements without much backup. It looked as if a keen nee recruit was asked to bulk up the spec pages. The supplier links ended up at " no longer stocked". @-rick- I think you said the same. Thanks all. But further discussion or disagreement is still welcome.

None of the links seems encouraging. They skirt round the subject and don't give any numbers or details. One of them I can see is for heat pumps. i guess most people just do whatever, and the water works, so there is no feedback. But this is a chance to strive for perfection.

That's correct. I hadn't thought about condensation within the duct. It would be a closed environment and not get wetter, but maybe it should be inset within the insulation. the hot feed would be at about 40 degrees, and the cold say 16?? so that's quite a difference. The duct would warm up to a fairly steady 25C or so. I was thinking we might just bond the duct to the lab with expanding foam. or maybe put 25mm eps under. But the pipes themselves? mdpe will be better than copper.

Continuing from a previous post, we are setting pipes and ducts on the original concrete floor, before insulating around and over them , then screeding. 150eps under 150mm pir. For the kitchen island sink, we need a hot and a cold feed. In my opinion they both need insulation to avoid heat loss/ transfer, especially from one to the other. However, the general builder who is putting in the pipes says that we should have both pipes inside a single duct and to use barrier pipe which is self-insulating. I've checked and see that barrier pipe is for contaminated ground, not for insulating (although some non-expert sites say it is insulating). The plumbing contractor now says the same! Both these guys are trusted and very good at what they are good at. In my opinion they have fallen for the hype from the plasterboard companies and then superfoil, that a layer of aluminium is insulating. I assume that a pipe with an insulating layer (armaflex etc) is tricky/impossible to get through a duct. I don't want 2 taps, labelled 'slightly cold' and 'slightly warm'. Your guidance please.

@Gus Potteris very knowledgeable and practical. I use him because I've forgotten so much structural theory. But possibly too far away from you. I can see he has seen this post but hasn't volunteered... because this isn't a marketing space. You could PM. In that case I can't help further. The market has slowed slightly so there should be capacity. Thus i suspect it is location, budget or something you aren't telling us.

Incapable seems very unlikely. Let us help by telling us more background.. something is putting them off. Otherwise the unwillingness may continue.