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Thanks @Mr Punter. we're beginners on this stuff, so no idea really. All and any information is fantastic. Guess Estimators Online have very slow plasterers then! ? I can adjust the quote by halving the day rate to £100/day and it should all come out in the wash. EDIT: This reduces the plastering cost by £3500 approx.

@the_r_sole I know, and it was a bit of a toss up weather to cost it this way and adapt or get a QS on the whole thing. One of the things I was struggling to cost fully was all of the electrical and plumbing, roofs etc and this has given me a good base line from which I can discuss costs/materials with builders and suppliers. We're probably using woodcrete ICF so bonding slips directly to it is the same as bonding slips to blockwork. Same applies to cladding so hopefully shouldn't be too bad. It was only £155 and has given lots more detail then I was expecting and lots more for me to run around getting prices for! @Mr Punter Is that on the expensive side? They have plasters day rate at £195. Which either means that the day rate is high or they're being conservative with the amount a plaster can do in a day. I think were planning at the moment to get to watertight as quickly as possible and then do some more of the straightforward jobs ourselves. I'm happy with laying pipes, cables, dry lining and stud work to a certain extent. I've even installed bathrooms and kitchens and laid engineered oak floors before. I'm not the quickest, but am an enthusiastic DIYer! We don't mind doing things we can after watertight and are very happy to do posh camping inside our dry well insulated shell! @LA3222 I can update things like labour rates etc, and change the price of things like windows, doors, bathroom items that sort of thing. But not change electric showers for mixer showers and it automatically calculate the changes in pipework required. My wife is queen of excel so I'll get her to do that. I would undoubtably get it wrong.

Thanks @LA3222! It was on the back of one of your comments about it that I decided to go for it. The only thing is that I don't know how much/what to take out! I need to replace all of the walls and everything associated with it and replace with ICF. Seems a huge amount of detail, which feels quite overwhelming to start with. Also, they've spec'd electric showers. I'll need to work out how to change these to standard mixer showers somehow. This I fear is just the tip of the iceberg for changes, but a great iceberg to have!

Looks like almost exactly what we're planning for too. Think it will take a little longer then a turk key operation but the saving would be dramatic. Good luck!

@epsilonGreedy Agreed re, bathrooms. And noticed they've included electric showers.... hmmm... There is no way we'll get a mobility ramp - the plot is on the side of a steep hill and it would be like a ski slope! Also, because were knocking down and rebuilding a bigger/better home we have the advantage of already having a drive. Phew! No kitchen, correct, but we will have allocated £25k (can be reduced if required - budget!) to that so should be ok.

Just received the first stab at costing from Estimators Online (as an aside very easy to deal with). It obviously doesn't include a few major things as they have no ability to price them on the system, but it gives a good indication of prices. Or does it? It seems cheep (£237k) and the project timeline (25 weeks) seems fast or am I missing something? Our build is 225sqm with 260sqm of external walls. Here is the output from their website, big things to add/remove/change off the top of my head are: - ICF not block and asccociated concrete, pump etc. - can't get a crane onto site easily if at all so big stuff will be needed to be lifted manually. - add 160sqm stone slips (approx £15K plus labour) - add 100sqm of timber cladding - add demolition of existing building - add disconnection/reconnection of services - upgrade roof insulation - windows spec'd in uPVC where as we will prob go for something better then this. - probably more lights (LED down-lighters) and power sockets - can't see kitchens/bathrooms included so guess it's plus those. - also doesn't include the balcony, but we're happy to forgo that on budget - I told them I wanted an insulated raft with UFH power floated into it. Don't think this is there but could be wrong again. Really appreciate feedback if anyone has any thoughts. 390766_ New detached dwelling - The Bungalow_Client.pdf

How does this sound for a solution: 2 new planning applications: 1 - to build existing house as a new build abutted to but not interconnecting with the store 2 - convert the store to be a separate 1 bed dwelling Then we have one as 0% as tis a new build and one at 5% as a conversion if I understand the rules correctly? TIA!

Thanks @newhome, I’ll do that today. Guess it won’t be a quick response though!! Anyone know how HMRC police this? Do they send an inspector out or just go on planning docs?

This might well be the way forward. it does seem pointless to knock down a perfectly solid building just to rebuild it. do you have any idea of which department of HMRC deal with this? Or even an address/email? thanks!

@joe90 planning is to attach it to the new build and incorporate it as habitable space. I didn’t know if that had a bearing on the VAT position. The main residential building will be completely going and being replaced footings up just not this one that was called a store during planning. No way could it be a garage due to access unfortunately!

@PeterW It isn't connected, just a store. Does this count? @LSB I have studdied the documents fairly thoroughly and whilst i know what our planning allows for there is no mention of how leaving the existing ancillary building will affect VAT payments. Just looking for clarification and unofficial advice on this.

We have a few options with our build, and would like ask you experienced and well regarded intelligent people for some guidance. We don't want to fall foul our the VAT reclaim regulations and end up hanging to pay VAT on the whole build. Here is the site plan. The red dotted line is a bungalow we are demolishing. The green building is a store with no water or gas but electricity via a cable drawn from the bungalow. It's got windows and a door etc but is a store at the moment. The buildings are at the moment not connected in any way other than the power cable. Option 1: Build as shown and integrate this into the store so there is access internally between the new building and the old (does this mean that it might be classed as an extension, and also we would-be be removing all existing buildings on site)? Option 2: Build up to the store but create no internal access between, almost like making a semi-detached house. Option 3: Build to near the store, but not touching it, ensuring that its definitely a separate building Option 4: Knock down everything and start again. We're hoping for option 1 or 2. Obviously option 4 isn't great! Separately, I guess if we wanted to convert the store at some point to be a granny annex (it would be cozy, but it is 2 stories) that would affect things too and obviously the conversion wouldn't be 0% VAT? This is purely in respect of VAT, I know changes to the scheme would mean some form of alteration in planning. Thanks for your help!

We did exactly this. We knew we were going to move the trees when we moved house so they’re planted in 125L tubs in the ground and ready to go. I have no idea however how on earth were going to lift the tubs out of the ground (expect they’ll be bl**dy heavy) or how they’re going to get transported the 1.5hrs to the new house! Suggestions welcomed!

@Conor interested to know why you put the PIR on the inside? Are you concerned with the thermal mass of the concrete bring outside the main thermal envelope?

Personally if Having to choose between the two I’d go for the keener one who will learn and follow instruction better. Having said that I’d agree with @Gav_P and look for a third option I think. You may still go with one of the first two but never hurts to have more options! good luck!

Thanks @willbish. What ICF did you use? I'm guessing that those like Jackon/Beco etc. that need rebar though the whole structure will cost more. Agreed on the u value, was a bit disappointed to think that Nudura might not have wanted to quote for a larger block size because of the transport costs. I could be wrong on that though.

@ToughButterCup I've read your Durisol blog. Plenty to watch out for - thank you for detailing your experiences! Our builder seems to have a great local reputation with clients and other trades, and has done 2 Durisol projects before. Only hang up is he has never done a whole house. Just large extensions etc. I don't see that much of a difference, just a bit bigger! Famous last words. Also seems happy to learn about other ICF systems so we'll see.

@Conor Buy ICF ourselves and have builder construct with me labouring/getting in the way. Then the builder will continue with floor/ceiling etc and separate carpenters to cut roof onsite. Windows fitted... not got that far yet, but we know we definitely do want to have windows, and they will need to be installed by someone! We'll then probably be doing the external stone slips ourselves, bit by bit, evenings and weekends after everything is weather tight.

@Conor I had forgotten to add setting out in there. To be honest we're probably leaning more toward the woodcrete products (though not completely set yet) because of reduced need to brace and add extra rebar (except lintels etc.) so I wasn't really thinking about the extra time for those bits. I guess that could increase or labour cost (slightly) for the systems that need those things added in? And yes, I completely forgot about AMVIC! **scuttles off to find an email contact to send plans to**

I didn't think about concrete either until I asked and realised there was quite a bit of variation. Guess it shows that the ICF with plastic/metal ties need more and the ones with internal and external panel connected by eps/woodcrete need less. Hadn't considered that was the reason fo the hesitation of providing a quote from Nudura for a lower u-Value. I guess a block that's almost twice as thick will need twice the shipping cost!

So all of the ICF quotes are in. I've tried to standardise them as much as possible, but some have interesting notes which I'll detail below. Putting this up for others who might find it useful in deciding their supplier or working out costs, but also for any feedback or thoughts from the more experienced (that's all of you!). Our build is approx 220sqm footprint and 260sqm of wall. Durisol includes a 22% discount that they put on without negotiation Beco Walform have quoted for the 375 but say the 313 would save around £8K (inc vat) and only increase the U value to 0.165 (though the published value is 0.18) so much better value Nudura say that a U value of 0.24 is plenty and anything more gets really expensive Velox includes the steel that goes inside the wall. I've included a price of concrete at £100+vat/cbm. This is a little on the high side, but it gives comparison. None of the quotes include rebar (if required [except Velox]) - would have to wait for SE calcs. Can anyone suggest an amount (in £ or quantity) that they used on their build? I know that we'll be able to reclaim the VAT on a new build but were costing things as a worst case scenario. Labor to construct I'm guessing at 9 days for 1+1+me: 2 days build, 1 day pour (lower ground). 3 days build 1 day pour (upper ground). 1 day build, 1 day pour (gables, finishing off etc). Hope that helps someone and thanks for your thoughts!

Ah ha! A minefield of information! Thanks! So using those calculations I would have to find an ASHP with a COP of around 3.5 to make it more cost effective? Obviously not taking into account the cost of purchase, installation and maintenance of either fuel type, or of course the long term change in fuel prices for each fuel type.

Is your roof structure exposed? We may run into a similar issue so interested in everyone else's thoughts too! Thanks!

Because I don't really care about SAP values in their basic form, I care mainly about money leaving my bank account. If gas will mean less money leaves it then I'll keep it. If an ASHP will reduce our bills I'll do a basic cost benefit analysis and make a decision on that rather then some arbitrary number which doesn't mean much to me. We're not doing this build to be 'eco', but more to be cost effective and cost efficient, sometime I think it's very easy to buy into better must be better when sometimes it isn't.

No Idea, I have my score now and its where it needs to be for Ecology, so I'm happy. In a way (and this is probably bad) I don't really care how they got it. From what I can tell things may well change during the build and create change in a positive or negative direction way for the final EPC anyway. for example I'd rather have an ASHP but they said no, so I won't have one. Until it comes to being signed off then I might add one in later.