Thorfun

@jothI think was confused as in the photo of your cab you have a twisted pair across 2 x terminal blocks.

oh! right! the I was completely confused. I thought the 8-way blocks were only 16 connectors. I didn't realise they were pairs! in that case I need even fewer than I thought. this day just keeps on getting better. 🤣

I remember you saying that before but I like the way interconnected and standard ones are different colour. so I can tell from the colour which is which when I've forgotten years down the line! I was leaving the last 1 free for the internal wiring, e.g. the actual 24V cable and tree extension cable. so that would leave 30 out of the 32 in 2 x TBs available. so I guess it really should've been /15! coz I'm special and thought they'd need power. 🤦‍♂️ guess I only need 3 separated terminal blocks then.

yeah. I might leave it to my chippie to do! 😆

so if I've done my maths correctly (which I probably haven't!) then I calculate I need 6 x interconnected 8-way terminal blocks and 5 x separated 8-way terminal blocks. I came to that conclusion by calculating that one cable serves a touch tree switch and a presence sensor in each room. so that is 2 x twisted pairs so 4 connectors. I have 15 of those cables. 15 x 4 = 60 I've 6 cables that will just run a single Tree device so that's 6 x 4 = 24 so that's a total of 84 interconnected connectors so 84 / 14 = 6 Then I have 10 x cables running retractive switches which need separated TBs so that's 4 connectors each so that's a further 10 x 4 = 40 / 8 = 5 separated. that seems a lot more inexpensive! I know it'll be a massive ball-ache to add extras later and rewire should I decide to add other sensors etc but this 'should' see us to be able to move in to the house and have the important things working. I'll probably by an extra one of each anyway for good luck.

I'm just concerned that they won't fit in my cabinet! according to this data sheet they're quite big. I might stick with the 8-way terminal blocks even though it'll end up more expensive. but these Wago double-deck terminal blocks only show 2 x connectors? I can't see an earth on there at all.

afaik there is no 'pin', it's just screws. which is why I'm sure that screwing through the tile will be enough and the adhesive/resin is just belt and braces. yeah, this could work if I can use an angle grinder to cut a suitably sized hole without damaging the tile that's visible. could be problematic due to the circular nature of the angle grinder disc and the proximity to the jamb. but I think that's something I wouldn't know until I got the door on-site and measured the pivot etc. on a plus side my stroppy email to BCO seems to have worked as he's visiting site tomorrow to see where we're at and I can bombard him with questions!

I'm back on the subject of terminal blocks again and struggling to get my head around what I will need. I've started a spreadsheet with all my cables and I have read and re-read this thread and just when I think I get a handle on it it all slips away again. Cat6a cables I have 32 green Cat6a cables! and if I go down @joth's route of terminating all of them in the cabinet then that will be a LOT of 8-way terminal blocks which are expensive. so I am now thinking of just terminating those I need in the cabinet and living with a mess of unused twisted pairs within the cabinet. although, correct me if I'm wrong, all those devices are tree and need 24V so can I wire each cables G/GW and O/OW pairs to interconnected blocks and then run the power and tree interface cables to the last row on the blocks. that way I can terminate 15 cables per interconnected terminal block, right? so for 15 cables I would need 4 interconnected terminal blocks. 2 per twisted pair. Then for the DI connections for retractive switches and the like I use non-interconnected blocks and can therefore terminate 4 twisted pairs per terminal block. am I on the right lines here? one more question on the Cat6a cable termination. with the number of cables I have is there any benefit to going with a 16-level terminal block or are they too big for the cabinet? 230V Power I'm struggling here to know what I want/need. @Rob99 mentioned using the Wago terminal blocks 2-layer and 3-layer. the Weidmuller ones on the Loxone website that @Dan F suggested are 3 terminals on one-side but only 2 on the other. I presume these are used when there is no earth connection required on the internal side? which I guess is never, right? from what I can tell all of the extensions are just positive and negative. even so, is it not better to get the Wago 3-layer ones just in case an earth terminal is needed? especially as they seem to be cheaper. I'm struggling to understand the benefits of the Weidmuller ones over the Wago ones? Also, why/when would the 2-layer terminal blocks be used? I understand for speakers no problem at all as there's only a +ve and -ve but for anything powered, even my low voltage leds will have 1.5mm twin and earth. One final thing on the power terminal blocks, I presume I would need these cross connectors (or the Wago equivalent) to spread the power across the terminal blocks? my apologies for all the questions but I'm just trying to get my head around it so I can reduce the mistakes and associated costs with those mistakes! cash flow is extremely tight coming to the end of our build and I can't just throw money at this and need to be frugal and sensible.

yep. porcelain tiles. I wonder if a hole drilled through the tile with a suitable length screw to just go in to the screed by 5mm and then using an angle grinder to grind troughs in to the tile face and then an adhesive/resin. then there's not just a small slither of adhesive between the plate and the tile as the troughs will give the adhesive more depth and also the screw through the tile and to the screed will act as an anchor between the pivot, tile and screed? just need to figure out the strongest adhesive/resin to use. I thought a 2-part resin was the bees knees as it's used to hold threaded bars in place etc?

Welcome! This is definitely the place for all those things you’re after and more!

Yep. And we’ve not got a problem with that! Just need to fix them without puncturing our UFH pipes! 😂

the top mounted pivots will go straight up into the head plate of the opening so no issues at all with that!

I'm 99% sure we don't need fire doors. I have asked again my BCO (along with a stroppy email about not getting a response from them and what am I paying my money for) so hopefully I'll get a definitive answer before 2025. I've looked and looked and looked for alternative but our opening is only 2021mm in height so we are very limited with what we can do and what will fit. most bifolds seem to require an opening of at least 2050mm high and those you linked are 2047mm so won't fit. the JCI ones are pretty much all I'm left with as an option! there are some that require a 2031mm opening and the doors can be trimmed by 20mm but that's making things a little tight and they also don't come in a solution wide enough so we'd have to spend more money reducing the width of the gap.

along those lines these doors (https://www.climadoor.co.uk/downloads/Climadoor-Interior-Frenchfold-Door-System-method-of-build-2018-v5-AW.pdf) have wall mounted pivots for their system. I wonder if we could use something like that? (I can't use the Climadoor system as our opening isn't tall enough and there are many poor reviews online for Climadoor so I made an executive decision to stay away from them)

could definitely be something to talk to the carpenter about! thanks.

I think it's a bit late for a sprinkler system! we have emergency egress windows in all bedrooms and it's it only a two storey dwelling (as I believe the basement doesn't count).

easier said than done as my BCO is s**t and I don't get a response. I will try again though.

ahh...right. I don't believe they need to be fire doors as such but we need to be able to separate the kitchen from the hallway. something about protected exits or some such? I forget the actual building regulation it's meant to satisfy. our BR plans just show doors there.

we want glazed doors to allow the light in to the kitchen area. also want to allow the space to be opened up.

at 40mm thick and 104kg I'd say they're not lightweight!

I believe the idea is that with the resin bonded to the pivot plate AND anchored through the tile to the screed below the whole thing acts like an anchor to resist the lateral movement.

Fire regulations iirc.

I've just had a quick chat with my chippie and he has suggested a possible solution would be to drill 5mm into the screed and use a resin to bond the screws in as well as putting resin under the plate. he also mentioned cutting out a bit of the tile (doesn't have to be the whole size of the pivot plate) so that the resin has a 'base' so to speak. my analogy would be an iceberg. so that the thin layer of resin under the pivot plate would actually go further down forming a solid block to resist the lateral movement of the doors when opening. as such I'm confident that we can make this work. 🙂

that could've worked but the tiles are already down and I won't be able to cut the shape out.

the other option we have is to go for a bifold system like this https://deantawood.co.uk/product/folding-system/. the problem here is that our opening is not high enough so I would need to cut away plaster/plasterboard and then cut down the TF above the opening to accommodate the extra height. which is also a real pain! and which if I'd done the research earlier on this subject could've done before plastering.