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While I've not got a project yet I have spent a lot of time thinking about what I want to do and the idea of shadow gap really appealed but was definitely put off by the maintenance/fragility aspect. I think a good middle ground is to have wood skirting but end the plasterboard above it and have a shadowgap between the plasterboard and skirting. Skirting takes the bashes/wear and tear but you still have a flat-ish profile wall. Thinking about construction, seems relatively simple to do with careful planning, but time consuming. So either a significant cost if paying someone or significant time investment if DIY. Bit like this (though I would have the wood proud of the plasterboard by a couple of mm)

Soft as pine, less knots? At least that's my initial reaction. Sapele is hard as oak, easy to machine and few knots. Cheaper than Tulipwood. But, BIG BUT, comes from old growth forests in Africa and it's now listed as vulnerable so at the very least need to be careful tracing sustainably managed supply and even then are you contributing to an overall market that is problematic. Edit: open pores though so more work than tulipwood if you want to hide the grain.

Also, depending on tiles used the top cut edge might not look great. Looks good if done well though.

Sure. To be clear, I wasn't saying you should accept it, I was saying that was my initial thought. Having read this thread I changed my mind.

The pro tilers on youtube make it look so easy. Then you watch an amateur try and do the same thing and it gives you pause.

Hi @zoothorn It's obvious you are on a budget that is tighter than most. But you are also talking about spending what are large amounts of money on things like new concrete floors and solar arrays. So if you have some savings but not income then you've got to think whether spending the savings on improvements pays for itself. Without knowing the details, my gut says you might be better off keeping the savings and putting the interest you earn towards higher energy bills, than spending the savings on solar or a new concrete floor. Or at the least you should give it a go so you can really compare costs. If you've seen offers of 'free' or heavily discounted solar then do be very careful, those often come with strings attached and may not be a good a deal as you might think. As @Nickfromwales says if you can get a government funded install for free or very low cost then that may well be worth it but other offers not so much. The other thing about solar is your roof needs to be in good condition. I guess your property was re-roofed in the 80s so might be all good but if it's showing signs of age you wouldn't want to put solar on it without first fixing the roof (or doing a re-roof and solar at the same time).

Honestly, it's more professional to decline work you don't feel comfortable with than to take it on and make a mess of it/slap in an inappropriate solution. Sounds like they had the right questions to ask but relied on slapping the answers into some standardised template which couldn't cope with your setup rather than understanding in detail. Keep hunting for other firms. Would always suggest multiple quotes in any case.

Not trying to put you off but with all the positive stories on ICF maybe it's worth highlighting that it doesn't always go completely smoothly and it might be worth checking out some cases which were a bit difficult so you know how to avoid those situations. I think @ToughButterCup had a somewhat bumpy ride with his.

You always learn something new on this forum. I looked at the photos and my initial thought was 'looks pretty good compared to some of the things I see around here, this is probably something that is annoying now but you'll forget about it in a couple of months and it'll be fine' and yet others are highlighting lots of issues.

I guess. So we are talking (from https://www.planningportal.co.uk/permission/common-projects/outbuildings/is-building-regulations-approval-needed-for-an-outbuilding): So @Glenn when you say large, how large?

In a shed?

@CJO Welcome! I didn't realise you were here. It's good to see someone who is documenting their journey on youtube on here!

Yes, BB's clarification helped and definitely seems doable, but if that seems too much there are wireless options to explore. Not at all, take your time. I can't speak for others but my goal in participating here is to help you get to the point where you are not cold after summer. The time between now and then is for exploring, learning about the system and trying things. Good principle and I think it will click for you soon. But if after some more back and forth it's still not clicking then you might find just trying to do what we suggest might help clarify things. Learn through doing rather than studying.

One of the reasons why it may be worth skipping all these to start with and just set to manual. Come back to more complicated stuff once it's shown that the building can indeed be warmed. I'm not familiar with Valliant so can't really help zoot with specifics on the controller.

Firstly, using the timer is not wrong as such, it comes down to HOW you use it. In your particular building, using the timer to stop the heatpump working for long periods is the issue. It's ok to use the timer to set a modest setback, ie, 2C. So most of the time you run at say 18C but overnight set it to 16C. But using the timer to say you want 20C for 2 hours and then 10C for the rest of the time just won't deliver the result you expect. This partly due to the way the heatpump works and partly due to your building. I would guess that most people with heatpumps do use the timer. I can't tell you how to do it but it will be possible through the menus. You want to have a setback to setting the timer makes sense. In my mind, first step is to get your warmer, second step is to optimise things so your system works in the most efficient and comfortable way for you. First step can be done by just setting to ON*, second step might need the timer to do but in a way theres no point learning to use the timer if you can't get warmer with the thing just set to ON. * I do think the thermostat needs sorting first.

Let me have a run at this. If this doesn't click try to expand on what aspect isn't clicking. Your system has three different ways of running. Heating always available (ON if the room temp is below the setpoint temperature) - we are refering to this as 'ON' Heating is not available, 'OFF' Auto/Timer In Timer mode, the system is always in the ON state BUT the setpoint temperature changes according to the timer. You can make this really complex if you want. You could say at 9am you want it to be 25C, 12pm 20C, 8pm 25C, 12am 10C, etc Most people use the timer to set a daytime/'at home' temperature 'setpoint' and a nighttime/'not at home' temperature 'setback', but you don't have to do that. Right now your system is likely set up to have one temperature during the 2 hours each morning and evening and a 'setback' temperature that is much lower the rest of the time. So it's never really off, just that the temperature outside those 2 hour periods is set low enough that the system never turns on. The minimum temperature setting is usually 'Frost Protection' which means the only time it comes on is if it gets so cold the heatpump might freeze which would damage it.

Before looking for boosters, try out the other networks. Theres only 3 physical networks now so not a huge task.

Can't remember where the £60 comes from but I know I assumed £60 was pure heatpump cost, with the other £12 being other costs + standing charge, a guestimate of course. (likely a little off as my Octopus standing charge is about £12)

I've been thinking about this and wanted to put some numbers on it. Taking a hypothetical two storey 120m2 building with 2ft stone walls. 6x10x5 footprint. Assume worst case U-value of walls (from scottish gvt doc) of 2. Relatively poor double glazed windows, also 2 (makes calc easy). Wall area 10x5x2 + 6x5x2 = 100 + 60 = 160 m2 of wall Heatloss through wall per C of difference between inside and outside = 160 * 2 = 320W Heat input requried (Watts) Average Outside Temp Inside temp 0 3 6 9 12 15 4800 3840 2880 1920 960 16 5120 4160 3200 2240 1280 17 5440 4480 3520 2560 1600 18 5760 4800 3840 2880 1920 19 6080 5120 4160 3200 2240 20 6400 5440 4480 3520 2560 Approximate cost for 1 month/30days at 25p/kwh Average Outside Temp Inside temp 0 3 6 9 12 15 288 230.4 172.8 115.2 57.6 16 307.2 249.6 192 134.4 76.8 17 326.4 268.8 211.2 153.6 96 18 345.6 288 230.4 172.8 115.2 19 364.8 307.2 249.6 192 134.4 20 384 326.4 268.8 211.2 153.6 So if we assume that for the year the outside temp averages 0 for one month, 3 for 1 month, 6 for two months and 12 for two months. (6 month heating season) and a SCOP of 3. Annual spend on energy would be (ignoring DHW): Inside temp 15 979.2 16 1094.4 17 1209.6 18 1324.8 19 1440 20 1555.2 Obviously a lot of assumptions here (ignoring losses through roof and drafts, ignoring modern extension, taking likely worst case U value for walls and COP). As a sanity check Nick said his similar property cost him £450 for a month to maintain at 19.5C. I'm assuming that's not averaged over the year but what it costs mid winter in which case it's not far off these approximations. The difference by degree C is lower than I was expecting but I think these are still useful numbers and I think shows zoot could likely maintain an internal temp of about 16 without spending significantly more. If with our help he can get to a COP of 4.5 on his heatpump then he could do better. If there are significant drafts then all bets are off, but drafts can be fixed.

£60 worth of heat should be enough to keep the inside warmer than the outside if applied correctly. That there are times when this is not the case strongly suggests the current energy use is not being used optimally. We have asked him to try and his recent posts suggests he is considering it. The proof is in the pudding. If he tries it and it works then he can decide what to do with that knowledge. If he doesn't try he never knows. In this house I agree. Well insulated houses it could work, just wouldnt be very efficient. I think recent posts suggests Zoot is willing to try and see what happens so long as his bedroom can be kept reasonable for him to sleep in. Using the heatpump to just heat the water and turning off the rads, may indeed work out better if the budget is strictly set, using the immersion seems like an unnecessary waste given he has a heatpump can do the same job at 2.5x the efficiency (depending on the length of pipes see JohnMo's example). If he decides to go ahead part of my suggestion is to monitor the meter closely (stated much earlier and would do again if we get to that point). It is certainly the case that running the experiment for a couple of weeks will add cost, but I suspect averaged over the year it won't make much difference for the experiment. Long term is different, after the experiement Zoot will have information needed to make decisions. What is enough? It depends what temperature you want the inside. Every 1C costs a lot, lowering the thermostat gives zoot flexibility. I think it's realistic for not much more money to get zoot to the point where he still needs a blanket in his sitting room but while sitting there with his blanket he feels comfortable rather than still cold. I suspect £250 per month over the year gets the place to approximately cozy. I've said before my mums place costs about £2000 a year to heat. Thats with uninsulated solid brick walls (some only single skin). That's £160 per month averaged. Zoots walls being super thick likely have a higher U value than my mums.

That is up to zoot. We have said repeatedly that if he wants to be warmer he will have to spend more, but it is also clear that a lot of what he already spends is wasted. My goal in helping is to get the system to the point where zoot has a choice. How much to spend is variable. Every 1C of internal temperature will cost money. For his current £60 per month if applied wisely his internal temp could be maintained at a level where his breath is not visible. Warm and cosy no, but its still an improvement. Spending more can raise the temperature and once the system is functioning correctly what temperature and how much to spend is completely down to zoot.

Ah I am sorry. I'm using 'setpoint' to mean the temperature you set the system to deliver. 'setback' is used to mean a lower temperature than the one you normally want. So you might set 'setpoint' to 20C for daytime and 'setback' to 18C for nighttime. No problem.

When you buy it you get two boxes. 1. The thermostat that you can put wherever 2. A reciever box that is wired into the heatpump controller.

Ah this is confusing isn't it! Let me try again: The thing we want to avoid is where the heating is full blast for a few hours a day and then entirely off for the rest of the time. We want the system to be on and able to provide heat at any time day or night (if the thermostat says it needs heat). However, it is ok to have the temperature set point vary by time as long as by a small amount. ie it's ok to have the setpoint be 20C in the daytime and 18C at nighttime and use the timer to do this It would not be ok to have 20C in the day and 10C at night as that is too big a difference and it is effectively the same as just turning the system off overnight. Given you have struggled with the system it seems best to keep things as easy as possible. The easiest possible way is to keep the system on 24x7 and use a TRV in your bedroom to lower the temp in your bedroom vs other rooms. Setting up the timer with two different temperatures is the other option but more complicated to do. Edit: You may well need a TRV in the bedroom anyway even if you use the timer for setback because it is better insulated than the rest of the property it is likely to warm up first and end up hotter than the others spaces without a TRV

I think @Nickfromwales's suggestion to get a wireless one, that has a reciever that is wired in to your existing may be the easier option. I do think either way though it would be better done by someone else. But I don't know Valliant specifically or whats involved there so will leave this to others.