marshian

Pleased to say one of our regular hedgehogs has been prepping for winter

You’ve replace google for me

Unfortunately from a stealing heat perspective both bathrooms 1. share a wall with the stairwell (18 deg set point) 2. share a wall with the landing (same 18 deg) 3. One shares a wall with a heated bedroom (20 deg) the other with a box room (18 deg) this box room has 3 external walls and a much higher heat loss hence the lower target temp 4. Both have an external wall and small window (plus extractor fan) 5. Both have 300 - 325mm of loft insulation above This conversation has stopped me making a big error and doubling the size of the rad based on 50% of wattage required - I just need to either buy slightly taller one 1800 v current 1600 or same height doubled but a reduced width. I really want to make sure I don’t end up bouncing along the top temp with TRV intervention - currently I have a DAB pump set to lowest speed on constant pressure watts 9.5 head 1.8 m m3/hr 0.5 (so 8.5 litres per min flow rate) in the shoulder seasons with current set up Boiler fires for ~12 mins in every hour and with a nice open circuit all rooms stay nicely at close to target temps again thank you for the help

^ This in spades for me - I do most of my DIY in summer and most of my car stuff in winter both use very different muscles but it balances out (60 yrs)

I've not designed for any DT - I believe the expression is I am where I am with this house I've been using DT 10 compensation factor of 0.123 to work out what the rad output is v the heat loss at -2.5 OAT and two of my rads are coming out as undersize (both bathrooms with vertical column rads) This confuses me because the room temps are actually way closer than they should be (no matter what the OAT and room temp is just 1 deg below what I want it to be 21 although on bath nights Mrs Alien would like it a bit warmer.) so before I upsize them to hit the target temp I want to be absolutely sure of the factor to apply so I don't end up going to large and then restricting the flow to trim the temps. Set up if it helps Viesmann 100-W 16kW "Heat only" range rated to 4kWh on CH with external OAT sensor running WC (DHWP takes care of HW) Heating 23.5/7 (HW cycle once a day 30 mins does what we need 6 out of 7 days 2 x HW on her bath night) So at -2.5 my boiler flow temp is 36 Deg C (that worked fine last winter and the WC curve is nicely dialed in for pretty much all circumstances) DT at the boiler is a pretty stable 7 Deg (regardless of flow temp determined by the WC curve) Two rads concerned have a DT of 6 Deg between flow and return (Pretty much all the rads run similar DT T22 and K33 are a little bigger but other towel rails are a little narrower - all the rads are set up with the correct flow to meet the room requirements using Drayton EB4 TRV bodies) Now I understand the calculation (and I take the worst case of -2.5 OAT) 36 - 6/2 = 33 33 - 21 = DT 12 13/50 = 0.240 So Heat loss of Bathroom is 210 W Current rad is 800W at DT50 This at 0.123 is 98.4 W (Just under 50% of the output I need based on heat loss calcs) 800W @ new correction factor of 0.240 is 192 W That's much closer and kinda fits with the reality I need to upsize it but not by much ( a 1000 W similar rad with a DT 50 rating should give a little more wiggle room for the Bath night ). Thanks for your help

I keep coming back to this thread to make sense of the calculations in Bold I can't make 35-5/2-20 = 12.5 It's driving me a bit cranky @JamesPa My issue is my heat loss calcs were done room by room and in some rooms the rads currently fitted shouldn't provide the heat required at -2.5 Deg OAT if I use the std DT10 factor for T50 Rad so I'm trying to work out what they will actually output based on my own flow, return temps Flow 35 Return 25 Room 20 DT 10 Correction 0.123

Put the floorboards down and make a coffee 😉 Whats the joist spacing - they look quite close together in the picture but maybe that's the camera/phone lens

Last year at the start of the heating season I was running scheduled heating and manually setting flow temps. I transitioned to full WC flow temps during Dec moving to 23.5/7 heating (0.5 is HW recharge) and refined the curve in Jan, Feb and Mar with a really small tweak in Apr to fix overheats on warmer days (so bottom of the curve stuff). This year I used the same WC setting I was using at the end of the heating season Comparison of kWh/HDD (based on 16.5 Deg C base line) for first 6 days of this house heating season Day Last year This year Day 1 2.3 0.6 Day 2 4.9 1.8 Day 3 3.5 4.1 Day 4 2.7 2.0 Day 5 5.5 2.4 Day 6 7.6 2.3 Avg 4.4 2.2

50% of my CH circuit is under the suspended ground floor - it's lagged to within an inch of it's life as it is outside the heated envelope 45% of my CH circuit is between the floors - ie it's within the heated envelope and is not lagged at all 5% of the CH/HW circuit is from the Boiler to the HW tank and CH zone valve and back - this is lagged to within an inch of it's life to keep the heat in the pipes because in summer as @JohnMo says that contributed to an increase in room temps whenever water was heated Use something like Tubolit and the largest wall thickness that you can - the glue if you buy it in 250ml cans has a dispenser brush which makes it really easy to run along a split and seal it up - I'm not sure with a decent wall thickness pipe insulation you'd get much improvement from wrapping in rockwool

Not going to make it - still at work.........

You raise a really good point - thank you If you mean those officials who partied whilst the country was locked down - we should trust them right? Or perhaps you mean the officials who line their pockets on PPE equipment that was effectively useless - we should definately trust them? Or maybe the Media who with a country locked down and little in the way of revenue from advertising eagerly lapped up the official advertising revenue - totally trustworthy? Or maybe we should trust the businesses that profited from the lack of competition - supermarkets that could sell anything v small retailers that had to shut their doors - we should trust them? Nothing passed the sniff test for me during covid - if it passed yours then fine - you do you I'll do me Earlier contributor calling me a conspiracy theorist for having views that they didn't agree with is pretty much the way of the world - Everyone I don't agree with is Hitler. On average 1,600 people die a day in the UK yet the national news outlets during covid announcing 50 deaths from (or with) Covid like it was an extra-ordinary event I was labelled an "anti vaxer" for not "getting vacinated" - I'm not and have never have been anti vax - my reason was specific - having a holiday in North Vietnam on the Chinese boarder in very late 2019 I caught something that knocked me sideways and took me 3 months to recover - My reasoning for not getting vaccinated was simple - damn sure I've had Covid so why do I need a vaccination for something that didn't kill me and I'm pretty sure my body would recognise quicker next time - that's how post infection immunity works. (I do hate the term natural immunity as it implies you have it like a blessing from god or some other crap) Of course in 2019 it couldn't be Covid - it didn't exist then because everyone in authority says it didn't exist. Never had it since and during the pandemic working in my industry unfortunately I had to test for it a lot. PS I didn't get to enjoy the summer sitting at home on 80% salary - that would have been nice and I can understand why some would have a rose tinted view of the pandemic and the massive over-reach of the Government. Anyway That's my last contribution to the conversation around Covid in this thread.

Regarding Covid (Which was what I was referring to) quite a few obvious ones Pretty sure you don't need me to point them out It wasn't a "lab leak" but from a wet market from someone eating an uncooked Pangolin We were told there was no such thing as "natural immunity" - only the vaccine can end the pandemic (Post infection based immunity has served mankind effectively since the very beginning - to deny that is crazy) Minimal risks to the Vaccine - yeah that worked out well. Covid risk to the elderly and those with co-comorbidities was as high as a bad flu season but we never previously locked down for that what was different for Covid. The risks from the vaccines increased as they vaccinated younger and younger people but the benefits from vaccination weren't there to justify the vaccination but they still carried on. Masks and social distancing were based on science Lock down was the only answer - the vilification of the Great Barrington Declaration and the authors who dared to question the official narrative and suggest a more moderate path. The increases deaths post pandemic can easily be explained by the shutdown of the NHS for a large number of screening processes and focus on one aspect. In short my view is simple "The Cure was worse than the disease" Problem is those in government will never allow that to be a conclusion (It doesn't matter which colour rosette they wear).

I'm quite impressed it's been "foamed" - most window/door fitters bang in the window or door and then cover the gap with a bit of trim held there by a thin bead of silicone I think most "Expanding Foam" products break down with UV so left exposed like that it will degrade over time - so needs covering with suitable silicone/mastic I especially like that the packers are still in place!!!!

I have no doubt that man on this earth has had an influence on the climate - can we reverse it - maybe - should we try absolutely? However is the current path the right one? Can we discuss this? No......... What I really have an issue with is trust in authority (AKA Government) and MSM is broken and their reaction to Covid caused it - it was pretty shakey before but Covid broke it - utterly broke it in my opinion - I'm sure other opinions are equally valid What broke it - the total suppression of discussion - there was no alternative opinion or direction of travel allowed What was it Elizabeth Arden Said "We are your one point of truth - nothing except what we say is true" Jesus Christ!!! How many statements have been proven to be be false How many conspiracy theory's ridiculed are now grounded in fact Good luck all because IMO this is all going to end very very badly and no one in power is going to be happy about that

Absolutely

When there is no room for discussion and opposing viewpoints are shut down people are silent for fear of being labelled - they voice their opinion in the only way they can at the ballot box and stick a very large two fingers up to the establishment. I can see that happening in the UK and a complete bunch of fruit cakes standing for reform being given the keys to the bus!!!!

It’s how the USA got Trump (twice) - food for thought? If you have seen it before sorry now replace Trump with Climate Change or Covid - the video works for both

Politics, climate change and Covid are three subjects where the populations view has been polarised by the media and now the vast majority sit in two camps with hardened views and no discussion is going to change either sides point of view…….. Quite sad really

I've actually found an alternative 117 litre cyl (copper and vented like current system) But it has a 2m2 surface area coil https://pirateheatingsupplies.com/product/ultra-high-recovery-117-litre-vented-hot-water-cylinder-900-x-450/ Only downside is the heat loss is a bit steep compared to modern encased cylinders

Then we are going to need to work out which is better PHEX first and then HW Cyl Coil before return to the boiler or viki verki?

Oh I'm sure they will work - just not much better than what I have which is definitely not a heat pump compatible cyl

I'm not adverse to picking up things second hand but at a good price, However the chances of an ASHP compatible indirect HW tank fitted with a 3m2 surface area coil and a volume capacity of 125 to 150 litres appearing on Ebay, gumtree or FB Market place would have some serious odds against it happening

Yes wise words - same would apply to replacing the boiler when the previous one worked (but was 15 years old), HW tank (currently 14 years old), circulation pump (was 20 years old) and many other items - none of them will recover the costs in terms of savings (well except maybe the pump because the old grunfoss pump was a watt hungry little bugger. However from my own perspective I'm getting close to retirement so currently trying to mimimise extraordinary household expenses in retirement by choosing wisely whilst I have the disposable income to facilitate the purchases. Of course I can never eliminate all potential expensive surprises in retirement but if I get the main ones done I'll feel a lot happier with a far lower income stream

I agree everything has compromises I could settle for heating less water more frequently but efficiently heating full tank more efficiently in a shorter time frame without resorting to 80 deg flow temps due to coil surface are of 0.25 m2 (best guess) or something in between

Provided work doesn’t intervene (and it shouldn’t) put me down as attending please