zoothorn

Declan- with respect, I have a hugely more pressing situation than considering optimal CH systems for houses. This was not my dept. Can you please, please cast an opinion on this intrusive noise (this one started again last night: its not the general overal noise complaint I had with the system during heating periods... its far far worse) that the box is making, during the "quiet" set-back overnight period? I'm desperate now for help on this: anyone, any opinions, what could it be/ what possibly could it be doing? thanks- zoot.

The 1st is something Ive considered. But surely a senior engineer would have said as a possibility, he was as bemused as the other engineer.. so I'm clutching at straws so much Ive no choice but ask anyone I can think of. Also it wouldn't need to be 'tied' to the small hrs overnight period to do it, as this damn cycle thing clearly is.. it would do it as often during the day, as the night. Frost thing- if the noise is solely within the inside unit, & the controller is saying the room temp this unit is in, is 19* (last night 11pm).. I don't see how any frost-situation could be a viable cause. This box unit doesn't affect 'back' down the chain, back down the pipes out the wall, back out to the outside unit if the outside unit was possibly being registered as 'frost-possible'.. I wouldn't have thought as only 2x high pressure gas pipes link the two units, the flow only ever in one direction >> into the box, not the other way. If the room I saw as below 10*, or, if the room was 4* (wholly unlikely on both counts, currently & since august) concurrently with hearing this noise-cycle mode.. Id be pointing there. But I have -nothing- even after your sensible suggestions, telling what its doing, why within the set-back period, & why only in these 'small hours' it does it.

As its addressed to me ST- I'll be the judge not you. Just be considerate. or don't reply. zoot.

Good points as always Peter. Ok I understand it a bit more then- in actuality it seems completely the wrong system for me, but the surveyors didn't know that, I didn't know that, nor installers. I can't run it for the time its meant to, IE continually on, as Ive explained it is pretty obviously -only- designed so to be used, including overnight (how anyone wants heating on overnight- is utterly beyond comprehension, cost-effectiveness, and eco too)......... because the unit inside is too noisy. I have to put a set-back overnight in, due to the intrusive noise. As Ive explained. -- Peter. Can you shed any light on this wretched situation last night I found. The inside unit, although in its overnight setback period, came on (no compressor/ heating input/ no vibrating 2 pipes into it/ outside compressor not active) alone, and for a period of hours, ramping up its motor 3mins on/ off, idle/ on off, idle minimum 1hour continuosly (this damn situation it is as loud as the previous pump doing the same wretched thing, similarly overnight- and the most intrusive noise- so this mode/ at this juncture, is quite obviously very different to its normal heating period mode when its active in conjunction with the outside compressor, a continual milder noise [no off/on/off affair] & alot better than the old pump in this heating mode). I need to try & consider what it is doing. What could such a unit (the noise specifically pinpointed to a motor within in) possibly be doing overnight, on its own, going on/off/on/off/on, for minimum 1 hour, during the setback off time of 9pm [10*, auto, crescent moon on controller] overnight period? It seems to do this approximately 1x a month. A very approx guess (it might have done it say at 5AM I was unaware of, possibly, having slept thru it.. tho loud enough I doubt it). Its not tied to a specific time, 11pm last night (no idea when it started, I was in kitchen all ev), 6am once before, 3am once before that. All during the overnight time I'm told it should NOT make any noise due to its setback setting. Can you think what it could, conceivably, be doing? thx zoot

A personal insult? well, just what I need thank you ST. charming reply. A personal insult.

Turned heating/ system on 6.50am to desired 21*. It was showing 14.5* (outside temp 2.5*, frost outside 1st time). Its 9.20 now, so been on 2.5hrs. Its showing 16.5*. So obviously I barely have a house feeling warm. Now that I find alarmingly low a figure it reached, after 2.5hrs (Ive heard compressor on continually, as expected). It tallies with what I found last night, similar 2.5 hrs timeframe similar 2* increace. I find the rads barely warm right now, the btms pretty cold: --this-- is the thing I find most obviously incorrect. Ok, if I put in 21*, and it was 14.5* to start.. I'd expect the system to go at a good whack, in order to achieve the 21* as soon as it could. I can't envisage a heating system not having this pg1 "aim" (IE I cant envisage a system will aim to achieve 21* not quickly, instead over 8 hours, at such a leisurely pace it puts rads barely on to 'warm-top / cold btms'. I just do not believe it). **The only way it can can work I'd expect, in order to go at a decent enough pace, to get up to 21*, in good time, is to get the rads temp up >> keep them there >> until 21* reached (then it can go into standby, until temp drops a bit, can dip in & out every so often). Right. a Question: is **this expectation reasonable?

Yes documenting xyz (it was finally liveable-with, once the new pump in, I thought I could just about keep it) is a good idea. But for the fact that my mental health will now suffer if I cannot go to bed without knowing this f****ng pump/ motor might start up for 2 hours at 3AM. I can't sit waiting with ipad to record, waiting with notepad. I have to now shut it off when I go to bed. I have no choice. No, outside the noise is no issue, not 10m away. N'bors house 60m away. My n'bors campaign is pure hatred due to one highly manipulative woman unhappy I turned down her (weirdly desperate) wanting to be friends, bc she was firing snipy comments (folks say she does this). Anyone do the same, a normal reaction from me, many in vllg stay well clear of her. Some added anti-english yes, some anti-south (from him) yes, boredom both at 70 too... & a 'clever' nasty faeces throwing & placing game starts, for 3-1/2 yrs, a month ago increacing to dog dirt plus theft (same instance/ same trespass) from my car, 6m away from me when my back turned. That audacious. A prior similar item missing I suspected her of, similar area, now confirmed. A daring game to her/ them/ giggle & denying at me when I holloered at them accusing them face to face once. This (theft esp) causes huge insecurity for sleeping recently.. the last thing I need is this damn system causing more stress on top. But thanks for thoughts Onoff, will take on board.

Just had to turn the whole damn thing off/ huge big red switch. So no heating on at all tmrw am. But Im so stressed. I can easily hear it 3 rooms away, in the extention top room/ would even disturb me in there. Even with this new pump. It was 2x as bad with the old pump. If I can't have confidence that it won't go on overnight, I cannot sleep restfully. If I can't sleep restfully, I cannot live with it. Ive got hours more calls yet again to vailant. Im so sick of it. Im so sick of hearing 'weve never had anyone else complain'.. how on earth can this possibly, feasably, realistically be so?? Im sick of two engineers not knowing what its even doing when I explain its noise, the duration, the pattern, the repetitiveness. It cannot be just my system. Someone must know what it is. It cannot be replicated by either engineer either. The Live Monitor (which might just say "in anti-rubella mode" or whatever anti-disease hour it purportedly does once every few months.. or something/ anything to at least gu=ive me a clue to tell call handler, to relay to engineer) says Nothing but its in 'standby' mode. Along with my infuriating neighbours creeping around my property at night & when my car's out putting & throwing dog dirt, and most recently actually thieving from my car whilst I'm in, only yards away, in broad daylight- yes no less.... this is as stressful & as infuriating/ and the two things are happening CONCURRENTLY. I just cannot fkng cope with this.

Can anyone shed any light. Im just off to bed, the thing has shut down 9pm as usual, its on auto as mentioned, there is a crescent moon symbol. It is in its set back period. I expect it to shut-the-****-up until 7.30. I go upstairs & the dreaded pump/ motor noise is going on/off/on/off 3 mins on 3 mins off!!!!!!! Never ending. A whirr you can still hear while its idling in its off 3mins state, ready at any moment to ramp up errrRRRRRRR again & its on again, off, on, off. A motor noise. Hours of it. What the **** is it doing???!!!!! it is infuriating and means I cannot sleep, & in a stressed state (back to square bloody 1) waiting for it to go on, or stop, or start. Loud enough to disturb/ interrupt my sleep in the next room. I mentioned it did this a few times before overnight when its meant to be quiet, to vailant snr engineer "no idea, shouldn't do" but its doing the very same damn thing again. Its ruined this spare room/ totally damn ruined it being functional as a bedroom, for anyone at any age, completely. This has now become intolerable. I cannot live with it. It has to go. I am so angry with this now.

No not my forest. I was just being an moody kid! my flippin fuel tho.. used to get 70kg easy, 4 long straight pines back from my ev walk on my shoulder 2x a week.. chopsaw it up, free firewood for 3 years. So upset. Forest so badly managed you see stacks of fallen trees just left interlocking, propped up, 5 years air drying to perfection. Kept me really fit too.

So you mean I just need to run it for longer, bc that's the way it likes to be? or its working twice as hard bc it has too many rads to power? No, there's just too much character in the main 'shell' sitroom, it would ruin it. I was offered it part of the whole CH shebang but said no: it would ruin the size of it too: its a gorgeous sized big room. Now if they'd only said 'we could do the floor' omg.. that would've been fab! but logistics of removing the old concrete prevented it being feasable from their pov I'd imagine.

MY forest.

Yes, but if we didn't have families with 3, 4, or even 5 kids.. we could. But lets not go down that rabbithole! I was only burning discarded rotting-away timber anyway, I'm saving having any more ash trees feeled cos of me! I'm an english pig tree saviour.

Well the insulation chap came round & said it all had to be lined 1st, not happy with my main shell & upstairs walls (no consideration of the main shell floor- I can feel the biggest cold leaker; if they said that had to be done 1st.. Id have jumped at the chance if it was offered to do) so I had to plead with them to let it go ahead despite this.. & they relented. So some of its ineffectiveness is entirely my fault, but, it still should surely be able to get a warmish room (where controller/ thermostat is) heated more than 1 degree per hour... if its working correctly. Nothing dramatic outside @ 5.5*, been on all day up to 18* prior to dialing in 25* @ 6pm. Surely. I mean the btm of all the rads remained tepid-almost-cold. Old skool Q but on the old rads, such a cold btm meant key in side/ let air out of rad. It can't be that with all rads seemingly feeling the same.. can it?

Good Q. Certainly not muggins: I was pushing for a 5kW! all the right folks came & evaluated, a very experienced surveyor who knew the system like the back of his hand explaining lord knows what to me of its workings at the time, so I really honestly don't think its too small. Its only a small cottage really, new extention now added, yes, but the surveyor had his tape out in the top room. Just 1 medium rad they put in lower room he didn't account for, but I don't think likely to make much difference.

I think that really only applies to structures that have a capacity to 'retain' warmth tho? good insulative properties? Like lets say a big f-o canadian log cabin might. My slate & mud 4 walls shell with its slab-on-clay floor, & voidy brick extentions.. I don't think have any capacity to retain warmth, at all. The thick stone walls -can- trap heat in ok I find, but only for very short time, cos I think the floor & rest of xyz just wallop in sooo much cold. These are just my 'feelings' of the place, 4 yrs here 24/7 almost 365 days each year. My saving grace was my forest I could gather terrific softwood, super-dry, hard work but entirely foc log supply.. but whole forest just been felled ? which is ruinous for me. And heartbreaking cos my lovely walks 2x a day thru it too, now decemated.

I originally had a 5kW planned. But they changed to 7.5 just prior to fitting, actually to be on the safe side ~more or less the reasoning/ as cost was no issue to them. So I doubt the reason its perhaps not functioning effectively as it could, is that its undersized. I just think the outside thermometer & whatever it influences is up the creek. I'll get me coat.

Yup- good that's a plan then. Ok I think the only other thing I need is placcy packers with my pesky 1cm midrift difference to the top & btm opening width.. is that the right idea too?

Right, so the 'power' factor you mention here, is presumably determined by the no.of rads its running, if a bigger house is only determined to be so, from the pov of the system, by having more rads. So, if I then turned off 2 rads, Ive effectively got instead of a 3 bed house as it is, a 2 bed house. And therefore, it should what run the 6x rads up to a higher temp?

I know exactly. I did take a risk knowing that it might well struggle here, but did expect a bit more heat from the rads tbh. They just don't seem quite hot enough to be effective. Now this might change if it get colder & the outside thermometer adjust them up.. but I'm not holding my breath. Glad to know its not more costly than another typical CH system tho. thanks- zoot.

Hi ST. I understood the reason for suggesting putting it in kitchen, far more convenient, but the cost of running it.. is kinda primary factor, before me getting warm. No the numbers- get that. I wonder what can be got from the '25* test' after all? afaict, it made no difference if I set it to 20.5* or 25*. It reached 20.5* in the same time, 3 hours. In fact rads might well have been -less- hot tonight. So that screws my nut in.

The remainder.. it'll be off, or rather just HW if that's what you mean. But I can only do this CH (as was ever the intention) Am, due to cost. So to not be able to have it start until I wake (noise) & take 2 hrs to get up to speed so I'm cold AM = I'm never getting any benefit from it. Very frustrating. I've only got it @ 18* during day & on in the evenings as a luxury/ new system I'm treating myself. Its going to default mode next year, just on 7.30 to 9am. The only good offset, is that my old immersion tank with its wobbly top etc, might have been so inneficient as to have been costly. The other good thing is my workshop, very low ceiling the reason clearly, can actually get warm.. but in the least room I need it. Room above is alarmingly not getting warm really/ huge great rad in there, not noticed any nice comfortable warmth like below in workshop.. & half the reason I built extention, was to have a hunker-down room bc the house is so unbearablly cold.

Now -I'm- lost. Afaik, & looking at the b&q clip, I fix the jam into the rebated trench, screw/ fix.. then saw off the excess. So I don't understand why the trench bit if I sawing the excess bit off (just to keep it nice & perp b4 you screw it together-?). Yes I think joe explained my plan. Just shift one rebate inwards, I think 2" or so, once Ive determined my header W. I can only think I find the header width, or rather the perfect width of the jams, by extending the narrowest opening width I find, upwards to the opening overhead area bit, marking a point.. then doing the same opposite side, & measuring distance between. Is that right?

Crikey that's gonna add up- if its on say 8 hrs a day, call it £30 a week/ £120 a month, so I can't possibly even afford it. I have good seals on door btms/ I plugged every nook on 1st winter/ everything. Its just coming up from floor Peter, you can just feel it is (no insulation, slab on ground) and in thru walls (no insulation, 2 brick courses): its not the old part of house too/ its worse. The bathroom adjacent to kitchen, is even colder: even with rad on, plus fan heater on, you stand in shower & get blasted by -cold- air.. the fan's heat just goes by time it gets to you! And that's a mild day (middle of feb, shower's unuseable you're just too cold getting in & out). If I move controller to kitchen, trouble is it'll rarely get up above 19*, meaning it'll just be on almost continually. Currently 20* almost time to go off. House not warm.

Had to put fan heater on in kitchen, as usual, near flat out too/ only way I can get warm. This house is an absolute nightmare- never known any house like it. I thought this CH would be what I needed, but won't be able to do a gnat's fart in january at this rate, totally pointless to have it on. Rads' sides all remain cold. Depressing.