zoothorn

I'll say it. Their storage heaters -still- belt out heat at 3am, flat out, which is impossible for me to comprehend as a design. I cannot for the life of me work them out. I do a thread, yiu guys say that one's broken if it's doing that. I inform my folks, who spend £1.5k on two new storage heaters following this BH hub advice that the heater is kaput. Another had identical symptoms. A year later I find the new ones... do exactly this nonsensical on hot at 3 am thing. I ask on here, perplexed. "Oh they're meant to do that, that's normal". £1500 to my broke old folks, is a huge ammount of money- wasted. There- I'll answer for you. Ok?

Sorry this makes no sense to me. I've said this too: The installer has no knowledge that I have used the prior system 'wrong' (this alone is infuriating: I have no option but turn it off to sleep!!).. no knowledge other than the system is defective & to be replaced. The new installer is A) not the original installer. B ) has no knowledge of the noise complaints, history of the old system: I asked him & he was 'meh.. I'm just evaluating the new system, all I know is old was is defective & a different yet similar sized one to be fitted'. So essentially he gas come to a new house, & doing his usual job of evaluating where the units will go. Whilst talking with me, the homeowner. It seems now folks are clutching at straws, scrambling for a conjectured reason why a buffer has been proposed when one is absent now. It simply now feels like everyone is siding with Vaillant/ the fitter, & siding against me. Typical of forums- a pack forms. Single out the weakest type instinctive thing. Bind together the pack. I should've just asked: can anyone who definitively knows the answer, answer the question? If not, perhaps best not give a personal theory.. because it adds to stress, as I feel inclined to answer the post for being rude to ignore it.

Ok that's rational. But they do not know that I run it not as it's designed to be run. I had no option but turn the wretched thing ALL off, bigass red plastic husge switch, in order to sleep in my own home... they only know this. They do not know I turn off spare bedroom rad because I live alone here. I've never told them this. So, it's a rational assumption thst they know how I run it.. but it's not true. The fitter had no knowledge other than I ran it how it should be run. And he made this buffer addition decision, at very last minute, after his site visit, him considering some aspect or other not privvy to me. So a buffer has some function. But why I don't have one now, is still not known. If the hydraulic unit -was- working correctly, which the fitter would assume once he installed it, why didn't he make a similar buffer addition decision-?? It leads me to think it's entirely a subjective installer's decision, maybe it serves some 'safe addition' water related function.. which isn't perhaps ESSENTIAL. I'm just mulling this along rational thinking, & as no-one can answer why mine has none/ why an exact sized replacement does. How else can I think??

I trust you guys far more than I do Vaillant Renewables, but none of you have a Vaillant ashp. Your ashp hyraulic unit, every one of you, is not made by Vaillant, & behaves silently enough to not be intrusive. None of you have a Vaillant hydraulic unit. Nor do any of you have a Vaillant buffer tank. So with respect how can I take any reassurance from you saying your (non-Valiant) buffer is silent?

@SteamyTea again I have to say: the running of the ashp, how effective or not, is totally irrelevant. I am forced to have a big tank Not to you, but is to me. Ruinously big. Whether or not the ashp is even turned on, at all, even if I were to unplug the whole thing from the mains... makes NO Difference to Vaillant insisting I have this damn tank. A question: why with my 10kw Arotherm split in the property now, os there no such buffer tank, whstsoever? Can you answer this?

@TonyT look I haven't even been able to establish, in 4 pages, why my 10kw Arotherm split ashp has no buffer.. but the proposed 10kw Arotherm monoblock (which is meant to be a replacement for it).... does. So how on earth I can cope/ consider heat loss calculations, & a volume of water within a cylinder & rads (which will be -exactly the same- why- because it is the very same cylinder & rads).... I have no conception of knowing even why you are insisting on the subject. No idea on gods earth. But thanks for at least, well I don't really know tbh! You're kind & patient that is all I can understand. Zoothorn

@ProDave basically after my awful experience I categorically refuse to have ANY part of it.. in a bedroom. Furthermore, it should be deemed unfit to site ANY part of it within certain house parameters too: a minimum distance from a bed, stated, by Vaillant, in the install manual. I am so damn adamant about this I've demanded it BE considered, to Germany HQ no less. In fact, I think they may have even -updated- their very fitter's install manual WITH my experience & recommendations having been taken into account. No sh!t. Or, lie to me again saying they have of course.

Perfectly reasonable question thanks ProDave. 1) I have zero trust this tank will be silent. I think you can appreciate after countless failed promises saying my hydraulic unit 'won't make noise'... then 'yes it makes bad noise, but we'll fix it'... dept after dept, engineer after technical expert, that I think they are a bunch of liars. Or just don't care. Or just so utterly useless. 2) It will barely fit, meaning ALL of this one & only small'ish storage space, in my entire house (which currently I'm able to make use of half of) is made fully redundant. Zoot

Joe90. The capacity of it, the function of it even, are of total irrelevance compared to just ONE aspect. One aspect -only- is of any need for consideration, for me, in my house. One aspect -only- for the thread. Its size. The space it needs. I couldn't care less what it actually is (once I am reasonably sure it makes no noise). It's function, for this thread, is 100% IRRELEVANT. It's relatively huge size (not for you with your garage probably no) for me................ is hugely problematic. Hugely. Zoot

ST. I have said 6 odd times the dims of this tank thing. (asumptions, that I've not done so... adds to my stress too). 1m x 0.5m. Nr size of a fridge. I only have council house space here. My current ashp this is meant to be a replacement for.. ..has no such extra tank. None. Zilch. Nada: so why this is even of existence for me to consider accommodating, I thought might at least by now have been explained by the experts here. Zoot

Tony. I have asked for advice on a huge tank. Nothing else. They have stalwartly said is to be fitted. No choice they say. I am asking -----only------ about anything anyone can think of of to either go with their insistence this is placed in my house/ accommodate this huge tank, or, any idea I could conceivably argue for a smaller one or none at all. But you ------insist-------- on an entirely different agenda about calculations. Sorry, this is getting infuriating & you are adding to my stress. Zoot. He

Hi ProDave. Ok you've kinda given me an angle/ idea I hadn't thought of. I've just the energy left to think on it, without giving up. That is: could I possibly -change, or swap out entirely- this damn thing once fitted?? iE later. Even if it costs say £500 to do so (I have no more £budget).. I'd jump at the chance. Then... ..I throw it in the Ystwyth. Zh

Thanks chaps. I'm just exhausted trying to explain time & again, & reading other heating ideas & heat loss calcs suggestions is actually adding unnecessary stress. I have the idea which I had forgotten about- building an outside insulated housing. Many thanks to whoever suggested this meaning it has some validity & so I can consider it. I don't think I have any other choice. But I will try pressing them with one last gasp effort to give me a smaller one,mor, none & I bear any consequences. If I have the energy. Appreciated, Zoot

Hi Peter, this is an ideal scenario though. I have no money to consider other options (whilst also accepting this replacement: to not do so & keep mine, which is deemed unfit & effectively broken, is potty. I have -only- the option of this monoblock. Hence the thread. How I navigate this wretched forced-upon-me extra huge unit... is the sole, the only thing, I'm asking about; suggesting entirely other systems, with due respect (& you're likely right in any situation whereby I had any position to choose alternatives).. is totally n/a.

Ok, if that's the conclusion... I'm resigned to choose. I was hoping there might be some other thinking, I hadn't thought of. Building an outside unit? This is something someone suggested you see: Tbh FAR easier a prospect than building in a cramped dark mice ridden loft, with access hatch so tiny I can barely get my tum through let alone build materials up. Thanks, Zoot

TT, with respect, my cottage is utterly unsuitable: thick slate stone & mud walls on a bed of clay, with a 3" concrete floor poured on. Then cold pouring down from the upper floor into this main central room, via stairwell & also perimeter (straight down cold loft air). All these aspects I cannot affect (bar a curtain across stairwell: as good as useless). I'm resigned to this house being cold. Even a 10kw stove can barely heat the room, running so full & hot it's parts bend inside, for 3 hours flat out: the couch 1.5m away.. is still cold. The cold, & trying to marry an ashp (you cannot do it!) is a loding battle & nothing of relevance here. I keep trying to explain this. Only this huge tank suddenly sprung on me is what Im asking about. Nothing else at all is relevant to this thread. Thanks, Zoot

Believe me Joe90.. I've not only asked them this, just after this fridge sized extra unit was sprung on me last August. No. I then begged them. No. So I need some other argument help, to try this request again. Partly the reason for my thread.

Thoughtful post TT, appreciated. I'm a but reticent about providing them with, or highlighting the heat loss calcs.. because someone (possibly installer) along the way of this install said "yr house isn't suitable, we don't think an ashp idea is feasable". I of course ironically chimed in pls pls just can we go with it?? (again only as it'd give me a new cylinder was my thinking/ £1k saving to me is alot). Grant folks relented. So in a way I "deserve" my issues.. a cynic would say. Hmm. Might be shooting meself in the foot if I dig this heat loss calcs subject up/ possibly giving them an exit strategy to pull out of the offer you see. Will think, thanks. Zoot

Hi AliG. This is most helpful thanks. The current hydraulic unit now, has been deemed not fit for purpose after 8x engineer visits. To be decommissioned. So, one can conclude that it's hydraulic unit noise was wrong/ at fault. So I am not considering muffling it or anything, as it is to be removed. This took me my 18month battle to achieve. So looking forward. Your buffer siting options are fantastic info; just what I needed help on. I am not happy though, even if you say it won't make noise (bc Ive had 18 months of Vaillant telling me this via 8x engineer visits) with this tank situated 1.5m from a child's head fir example. Just no way after my awful experience. I have no trust in them. So with your info here my buffer siting options seem to be A) to try & rid the thing altogether (& accept any limitations to function, & to the guarantee). B) Do considerable build work at my expense to house the damn thing outside, or, C) inthe loft. Or D) get them to provide a smaller buffer, which CAN -just- be accommodated in a downstairs area corner. Imagine a council house, & someone at the last minute landing a 1mx0.5m tank you were not told of, saying I have also to accommodate this within my council house. THIS is where I'm at chaps. Thanks alot, Zoot

Hi Thanks, but I cannot afford any other additional CH system, even an extra rad, nor have the option to ask them to fit an insulated buffer instead (which being bigger, would be the polar opposite of what I'm trying to achieve here). I am resigned & know I will be cold here. This is a given & known upon agreeing this ashp install I have now (despite the grant chap telling me how cosy I'd be after install: like your own body, I know this house, how cold it is, how impossible it is to heat even 1 big room with a big stove running flat out). Appreciated but getting warm.. isn't relevant to the thread. Only the buffer tank is. The last last hurdle to get over.

High Hugh. Well I had no notion of grant installations as being anything but beneficial: my pure naiivity then. But even if I had done.. how could I refuse a new cylinder/ HW system even if the other bits were superflous-? I had no idea these extra ashp bits had to be left on, & that doing so would mean sleep disturbance. I can't be blamed for this. Nor the grant dept. Nor tye installer (with no mfr guidelines given to site the hydraulic unit away from bedrooms). It's Vaillant, the mfr who are solely to blame. And they have admitted as such too. I can't possibly afford any alternative option but accept this replacement. I'd not have done the thread if had any other option. Thanks Zoot

This is known but simply not the point ST; the running of it has nothing of relevance to what I'm asking on this thread, whatsoever. You're just finding an excuse to have a dig at me. I don't see why you'd feel the need to post unhelpful sarcastic negativity.

Thank you mods, for not putting me in the BH doghouse. The thread has just about run it's course anyway probably; as I think all ideas really have been kindly suggested. Zh

High Hugh. No it's my property, a small cottage (with a new up/ 1 down extension put on). My existing ashp was on a grant. Which kinda complicates in terms of what I should expect, & how far -you- think my complaint with this hardware Co, should go too I guess. Really does my nut in, because of course on the one hand I am grateful. Say so to them. But on the other hand, the hardware's ruined my cottage, my state of mind/ happiness, let alone my sleep.. & left me as cold as I was without CH before, because I can't turn it on, because that means you cannot sleep. Really say so to them. It's a double-head-fk. Zoot

Thank you Declan. Sense prevails.