zoothorn

Hi Tony, no/ appreciate the thinking.. but theres just a top hatch, these side holes are 2 decades of very frost rotten concrete blocks .

Hi markc, Ive made a good start going with your fill holes with stones approach. One last hole to block tmrw/ will do a pic. The render has been severley water penetrated behind it, meaning the exposed damaged block crumbly walls can just be scraped & a layer easily falls away, like rice krispies hundreds of small bobbles of concrete. scraped the weakest off.. but faces still weak. Once ive hacked off all the popped render, I really need to 'fix' this block crumbly surface so its solid/ won't deteriorate & then can adhere some mortar/ render xyz on. Would this way be the right sort of idea? Thanks, zooter.

Are there any advantages to a 'monoblock' per se? Or disadvantages? Ie to my split affair. Did someone mention I can't do hugher flow rates with it, I think this is what I tweaked up to get more heat from my rads.. but Im lost tbh. Anyway chaps thanks for your thoughts, help. I'll update once this replacement is in. It's great in principle that Ive fought a big Co & won.. & if this blasted thing's able to go well away from bedrooms ( yet established by the installers -same young Co- if possible logistically) then I may be ok even with it coming active overnight. If not.. then back to my insulate birdbox idea onto outside sensor ( when 3*C temps imminent ); they've agreed to this sensor to be placed lower, so I can attack it as a back-up last resort plan. All bases covered I think. Apart from understanding wtf it actually does at 3 am making this noise.. which remains & will always be a mystery. zoot

HI dpm, no I don't know what such a valve is. No the engineer hasn't been here at 3 am: one of the most frustrating things being they'd never likely be present when this noise was on ( 11pm to 7 am, any time between as a rule ). What I did do was show them ipad clips, i took at 4.17am.. which they crowed about being " great info, just what we need to pass on to germany". Then never heard from them since. So if this was both uk head engineers, they passed on to german mfr, then yiur suggestion would likely have been ruled out. But your implication is that it is a fault, doing something it's not meant to. It is established, that it is doing exactly what its meant to/ designed to do. No fault. Either the incorrect pump has been included in the design ( one of their chaps, only y'day, eluded to this very thing as a distinct possibility, which their design comittee is addressing ' for the future design') or the frost mode software design is flawed (IMHO it is both of these).. but that doesn't mean there's a 'fault' with my particular, individual system. thanks. Zh

Sorry if I banged on. But the install has been said to be incorrect on this thread by someone else hence this issue, & just that I find it incomprehensible to link the two ( or see anything wrong with the install ). But appreciate your input to read the thread & reply nonetheless gravelld.

Understood markc thanks. I do have a heck of alot of cavity to fill. Hmm.. I'm wondering if Onoff's idea might be easier, just for me.. Hi Onoff. I can wire brush the sides I think to adequately ' jet wash'. Then the render that's left is mostly hollow, so Id think all needs removing. Then I can prep the crumbly block underneath. Would I need a strong 'sealer' then maybe to fix this 1st? The mesh idea.. I think might be easier way for me. Will look into ct1 & galv mesh. Thanks chaps, very helpful. Zoot

There is nothing suggesting heat loss issues, nothing suggesting it is in any way, shape, or form, whatsoever, incorrectly installed. It is installed correctly. Calculations made to choose the size of it. And, it is running correctly ( just with a design aspect abomination causing huge stress & frustration this thread is solely about ). If they couldn't physically calculate that my floor is absurdly cold, probably bc its close to a big stream meaning huge extra cold ingress 365 days a year, because they cant drill thru my carpet to probe unlike walls to find out... they will likely have made an educated guess as to the floor insulative aspects. THIS is where the heat loss aspect might be ( the house's fault! Not the installers!!) And anyway this isn't even for consideration! I knew it wouldn't cope with my house cold. i knew this. I am not complaining about this ( i might grumble only that in my modern rooms, heating going on 7 am.. the rads at 9am are often cold for some absurd reason, the room rarely warm: but this is an entirely separate point, & cannot cannot possibly be the installers fault either! Its the bloody system!!). The only thing this thread is about.... is one pump. What it possibly does ( precisely ). Why it might do it. Why it might do it when it is doing it. Possible design thinking. If my frustration is understood perhpas? Am I insane ? am I missing anything? General help on a pump within a hydraulic unit, & a "heat exchanger". Nothing else is wrong but this. Nothing else causes sleep deprivation. These are the questions I was attempting to ask... not heat loss!!

Hi dpm. Points in general, taken. But look I do know an indoor sensor isn't even part of the chain to turn it on at 3 am. Only the outdoor sensor does, at the 3*C tipping point. Indoor sensor doesn't sense anything below 8*C. The word " gears" is my best choice to explain the two different pump running speeds, afaict it has only two. I hear, only two. Flow restriction causing it to go into this " upper speed mode " ? That implies a fault. It is nit running faulty. It is running exactly how it should, if a flow restriction/ hampering ( fault) was there... the engineer, in one of the ten visits, if not have found it, would at the least have mentioned this as a possibility. I have to conclude any valve xyz ( this is far to far for me to consider, engineering wise ) is not faluty, or one of the ten engineer visits would have found it, if not then at least tested for any such valve fault. If modern pumps vary their speed, I would suggest that " gears " is the most perfect word to use as an analogy too. High gear, low gear. Two.only. Much more concise & clearer saying this, thsn it "varying its speed from one speed to another". There is nothing, whatsoever, to suggest there is any fault. It is running precisely as it should, Im totally sure of this. Its just a design abomination. Which effectively they, themselves, have agreed dpm. But I still do not know if this new pump will be noisy enough to wake/ disrupt sleep: I know it will engage at 2.31 am. I know this as a fact. As infuriating that notion is. Would you put up with yours with pumps coming active at 2.31am when you've set your system to shut the fk up at night?. Would you?? NO NO NO........ you wouldn't. Nor would ProDave. Nor would Joe90. But zoot.... has to/ has no choice. SO. It is a mitigation exercise now only. Shoving the fkn heat xchsnger thing next to back door, a mini battle i fought on monday on an hour call, yet another, is one possible way. But its a guess. I cannot stop this becoming active, repeatedly/ incessantly, overnight. I have to put up with it. Thst is known. What isn't known is how disruptive this new system will be, will be heard, at 2.31 am, compared to my wretched thing presently.

Poor me having to deal with this fkn shite morelike st. no help from you, on the contrary in fact. Why post unless you intend to help? why? Replies like this add to this dire frustration of 10 fkn visits " we'll fix it" when theres nothing to fix, then 7 months no communication whsts so fkn ever. Then i hsve to contend with replies like yours. Jesush makes myblood boil.

This email I have just received from Vaillant. ----- Hello, Mr Zooter-Tooter, I have spoken to Alan about the issues that you are currently experiencing. We maintain that the best way forward would be to fit an aroTHERM/3 with a hex unit. On one of the visits, you suggested that a suitable location would be the utility room. This would mean pipework alteration between the hex unit and your cylinder. We would not alter pipework ourselves but will inform the installer of the changes needed. I have listed the pros and cons below. The pro are as follows 1. Pump runs at one speed and can be set on install 2. Able to keep the same controls 3. Less hydraulic vibration through pipework The cons are as follows 1. Unit still has an anti-frost protection mode and will use the indoor pump when required 2. Extra plumbing and wiring required (expansion vessels, diverter valve, interface) 3. No backup heater I hope this helps to clarify what we are offering with a unit swap. The other option would be to wait until Germany provide a software update, however as previously stated this will not be looked into until at least Q2 2022. Please advise how you wish to continue. Kind Regards, Liam Brooks Commercial & Renewable products aftersales support. ---- As the part in bold, i highlighted, is the crux, & this VAGUE part of the reply tells me absolutely NOTHING, STILL of the specifics I am desperately trying to establish, this mini fight continues. I asked twice, two different people, to pls get their head engineer to email me/ call me (the one who visited in april). But this is not this Alan person. So I have to ask again, again, again, for clarity on this damn overnight mode, what this new pump, in this mode, will do differently to the one its to replace/ how can i be reassured i will not be disturbed by this system's pump, at 3AM too, in order to accept this replacement system. Exhausting.

Hi dpm. I couldn't possibly wade through all those aspects, & with respect it's only this one device - a pump- that I need to understand simply what it's doing for all intents & purposes, for this thread. What its doing is not created by the installers. The installers have no sway in whether this pump activates, nor at what time it activates, nor what speed/ noise it makes when it does so. Even if they put the hardware in, they are not responsible for design aspects, individual companies' ( eg Milo ) devices forming part of the system, or software programs telling the bits they've put in, to do various functions. It is, it can only logically be, the responsibility of the designer & overall manufacturer of the system. Which is why I have approached without one exception over a whole year, Vaillant, who at last have agreed to replace it, not the installers. I am simply trying to understand how the flying fk this pump, in this frost mode, functions. And how this one currently might differ from the proposed replacement. One unit, size of a coffee bag. Nothing else. But it is proving absolutely impossible.

I am waiting on their top head engineer to call me. To explain this frost mode, why its not pushing anti-frost stuff around frost-prone hardware at 3am once it hits 3*C & below... why its not doing this, most logical duty you & me & anyone might expect.... but instead instead instead ( so Im told, absolutely, catagorically, by their renewables tech team who know these systems tip to toe) why its solely pushing water around rads inside the home, which cannot be frost-prone if inside at never ever ever below a minimum 8*C coldest winter room temp. If he confirms this is indeed, what it does, then Im in the same fkn boat with the new replacement system. The only caveat/ ray of hope being, that their renewables chaps tell me this new pump only has one running speed/ will be quiet/ cannot ramp up to a high pitch motor abominable noise. They say. Just their word. When their words often mean total nonsensical gibberish. Or the system is gibberish design. How can I make rational judgement among all this nonsense??

Erm, Im afraid I don't capiche Nick. Your too fast. No, I might not be correct on some things, but I know that the compressor has never been cause of the overnight issue. It doesn't come on overnight. But If it did, it would be at its one running speed- fairly unobtrusive (not sleep-ruiningly high speed).. but it doesn't/ hasn't ever overnight, because, Its in the setback mode & the compressor is only active ( in my system 100% fact ) only.. when its doing heating duties. I set heating 7 am to 9 pm. What is not clear, still, is what the problem pump is doing at 3 am. Therefore what the new system's pump will do, which will be in the same place bar a few inches. And I know it will go into the same frost mode. I still do not know, what this pump will do, whether it will do anything, if it does do something... what exactly? IE pumping - what - around - where-? And - why-? During the frost mode: Is the pump pushing glycol around the outside unit, just happening to do so from the inside unit? THIS is the only logic, to me. I was desperate for them to tell me simply " yes " ( bc that would mean the new system, with this particular pump resigned to the outside inside the monoblock, can do wtf it wants, outside, st 3 am, Im not disturbed). BUT Im told no, the system/ the frost mode pump noise is not it pumping anything around the outside unit but pumping -water- around -inside- rads. That is lunacy. Illogical. Bonkers. But Im told this is what its doing.. So I cannot make any sense, of anything it is doing, in this fkn frost mode ((So: I dont know wtf the new pump will do at 3am: so: how can I say " sure, great, go ahead & fit the replacement ashp please ".??)). Now I have to say to you- capiche?

Alas not. It was one my alltime favourite lines, from Butters in South Park. He was with his whores, & some homie spieling a long homie dirge.. & he ended up saying this. Ive just always wanted to say it.

@Nickfromwales I understand everything up to "capishe".

@markc ah I hadn't thought of that idea. Thing i did notice though, was the blocks seem to have hollow bases, so i heard a splosh far below when bit of rubble falls in these cavities. So filling each 'tower' of void up from say 5ft, will take a huge ammount of rubble won't it? Also rendering onto the crumbly block surface-?

Would the general idea be to actually remove, then replace these bigass blocks? Or to bridge the gaps maybe a mesh ( ? a guess ) & a thick layer of rendering ontop? Cant think how this idea would work. Block cavities..

Ok here she is cleaned up a bit. Another pic in next post. The reinforced concrete top seems solid thankfully. The blockwork, i think you can see into the cavity, is those bigass hollow concrete jobs. crumbles if I brush it. Then a layer of render it seems, all blown.. so I guess 1st job is hack this off? Thanks, Zoot Schmoot.

I must just crack on & repair it. Its going to hinder my job/ thread if Im challenged about my proprerty or discussion on laws take over. Please, I just need to crack on. As much as your info might be well founded, I cant do anything but repair it. Please just let me be. Thx zh

Yes but this will be new tanks.. but Im not replacing mine just repairing it. Most folks here have them, we all can't be expected to remove existing ones just bc some legislation comes in. New ones.. yes then your point is taken on board. Thanks zh

Yup ok thanks IanR, no I didn't know this.. but its the wild west here/ might be different to england, & for the purpose of patchin up me tank which will be needed either way, I'm just going to crack on.

Ok great. I'll do a good clean up of area, & take a clearer pic of how its constructed. No it'll be covered by plants, & only looks twds stream.. so no need to be perfect, just functionally patched up. Thanks markc

Hi chaps, next job on my delapidated cottage list, is patchin' up me septic tank wall ( top part of one side ). If I could ask how. Like a nazi bunker, buried on 3 sides, the top half of 4th wall exposed = bad frost damage? blockwork has crumbled etc. A tricky prospect for me.. but possible for me? I do get some pong from holes.. so a job rather overdue. Thanks alot, zoot.

Yup it's important info to be aware of. So you basically use ppe, use with care, & by very localised use ( a few cm's worth drip fed into a hollow stem, even via a farmers syringe ).. never ever spraying it on. You are not exposing yourself to it at all like so. The roundup US scare was farmers exposed to it from vast machines, inhaling it over donkeys years. For James it's either this way, or getting in experts ( who'll use the same pink glyphosate but legal weaker stuff now so less effective, in ppe with syringes possibly injecting into the low stem areas, without cutting as it saves them having the added hassle to dispose of the greenery ) who'll charge you hundreds for a less effective treatment. Or 3rd option is to use even weaker stuff ie roundup, in greater quantities, which likely will not be effective at all.