zoothorn

@Declan52 sorry to answer your Q's. 350mm 100mm (whether 50mm-100mm it doesnt alter the final floor/ scree H, as this has to be @ top of the 2x 9" blocks surely?) 25mm? (again whatever is planned, to meet the top of the 2x9" blocks' level.. I don't know how it could be any extra) No services, just minimal electrics.

Hi Declan. I've just put up my plan again ^ for convenience: you can see the 350mm fig. I explained to main builder1 (I went through the 3 simple pages with him carefully, made sure happy with my drawings- very happy "good, neat") the 350mm figure, & it being from the finished floor level in the house. I said the broken lines are "original floor levels". Understood. "Am I right broken lines are usual as used for such adjacent/ finished floor levels".. "yes". So I did my best, my very best. Yes I forgot the wording.. 'orig floor level' but he didn't show ANY concern, as I could see he understood perfectly simply. Thing is he didn't do the groundwork as I assumed he would, his chap2 suddenly appears & wants to start wed 3pm. No warning. "Erm.. ok.. you have plan & happy? (Yes- all clear). I'll just put a mark where existing floor is.. & critical thing is 350mm down from it". So I crossed every t & dotted every i. As best I could. And I get a slew/ deluge of opinion on here that my plan's not this or that, or its all my fault. No, that's just not right at all. More haste less speed is the fault, this & only this.

Photos as it is, with a socking great 600mm wide trench I'd never anticipated around it too.. due to having gone down the extra 350mm is my reasoning for it, but maybe this trench would have been done anyway? He told me he needed to do this for 'access' & reluctantly I agreed thinking only that it was for brickie's access (IE temporary/ & earth piled > blocks done > earth put back I assumed).. so I do some work, come back & see no pile of earth. So builder2 can say I gave him permission, when it wasn't clear (purposefully I believe) that it was a permanent extraction, & that a "retaining wall/ this a path area now" he says.. all bits Id NEVER known about, anticipated, planned or really understanding why the need for this fkn trench, even now. You can see here how low we've gone relative to the (already small) parking area. Id spent months of meticulous thought on this corner point & the parking area squashed in front. A precise cnr point, to give me -just- room for 2 cars. Meticulous pin-point design, ruined by 600mm damn trench. And talk of retaining walls & paths around it (urgh).

Ok appreciate yesterday's replies above after my strop. A day of respite, & sun to get away from the build was needed. Forums do have the tendency for a need to impress, either opinion or other members, remains my opinion.. but I'll put this aside for now. I understand the comments about the builders not being up to par. They are valid comments. But I'm caught between a rock & a hard place here.. The 2nd builder has definitely gone down too low.. by exactly 350mm too. I've measured 4850mm from the top room ceiling > down. This ceiling line across, conveniently intersects the existing eaves, so I did as I saw 2nd builder do (very 1st thing he did) & measure down from this point. There's a line he put up on wall under eaves. So just above the 1100mm window.. ceiling line > across = X. If you look on my plan, its quite clear to work down with 3 figures to be added up 2300mm + 200mm + 2000mm. I have put very clearly where the 350mm step is, & the 2000mm line clearly does not stop before it, but includes this 350mm. What builder 2 has done is he's ADDED the 350mm TO the 2000mm, wrongly. Would you agree with me, if only this, that this is almost 100% definite what has happened? Again my plan..

Why this damn gang mentality.. as soon as one person latches on, everyone else just dives in wanting their cut. Its the worst trait of forums, the worst trait of human behaviour too: tribal pack mentality attacking the weakest. why not try & help instead of criticise? because you need to show others you are on the same side, piling in too.

That's rude Onoff: my plans are exactly what I was asked to do not some quick sketch on a fag packet thank you. And there's obviously ample to work off if both happy with it to work from. Both are & said how neat, all good etc. I was not asked to do accurate footings depth. This was not my dept. I was asked where I want my doors, windows, etc etc.. critical positions --as a build plan, NOT NOT NOT as a detailed full plans (I was NOT expected to do this with perfect D footings, u-values etc etc how many times do I need to say it! NO) which is what you keep suggesting I should have given them. Wrong. The depth of footings is therefor irrelevant, to my input. It matters not whether they are 10' deep or 10" deep IF my floor level is met. There is a mistake by my no.2. NOT by me. Everyone is suggesting this is all my fault. It is not.

That side Peter is no issue. The problem I have now, just speaking to no2 again, is because this is ALL 1ft lower.. this path area @ 600mm is being talked of I had never accounted for. This eats into the very small parking area I had meticulously accounterd, for in terms of where my corner point was decided at, with, only going 1 step down (IE the surrounding ground could go up to the extention). Now no2 is firm firm on this path area around PLUS some sort of retaining wall: albeit 1x BIG FO block high at best (maybe 1.5 height needed I think). So now I'm not happy. I wanted the adjacent ground -always- to go up to/ marry in with the extention, not some big step down into a path all around it. But I hjave no choice with this now. Not happy. But I can't visualise end result, the extra cost involved, whether I can -maybe- somehow backfill this damn path area I don't want.

@Carrerahill @PeterW too.. thanks for thought. All points taken & understood. I know I need to step up & say xyz firmly. But this 2nd chap is not approachable in this way. I mentioned 'maybe' the floor's lower than expected? Today he got his rule out & agreed, & a bit sheepishly that "I have gone a bit deeper" by 80mm he says (actually I think 180mm, min). And then he says of course "so you need a path round, block up a retaining wall" (to keep adjacent now higher ground at bay). So this extra step down, as I thought, will cause hassle & expense to rejig things to suit it. I shouldn't be taking on the cost of this, but if argue in terms of a 'mistake' made by 2nd-in-C, I just know not only him.. but builder no.1 will shut up shop & walk off the job. I cannot have this, or deal with the stress of it. I have to compromise somehow. Ive already said "at least you're not too shallow.. so maybe done me a favour" to appease him & we're good with each other. But any compromise from him? (IE quickly whip up the block retaining wall).. I think fkn no way/ forget it. But this idea is only solution. I'm not happy about this compromise by me, but if I gain extra H in the lower room.. I'll be ok swallowing a little extra cost & I keep these 2 happy. But not alot extra.

Actually you posted before on friday, & were helpful- oh hang on its monday.. & you're the total opposite. If you can't lend any help, just why waste time with such negative posts. I mean what's the point, trying to impress others-?

What a charming post. thanks.

Understood Onoff. I guess this is one caveat of my doing the plans/ taking the cheap route (hopefully only one significant caveat). I just know my builder was happy to take charge, poss overrule the odd thing, & I have a degree of confidence he'll do me 2 good rooms heightwise (I think maybe the reason the floor's where its at tbh) but look at least its not too shallow! as long as that dividing floor/ ceiling hits the right mark.. that's the critical thing. A balcony + fr doors at head height is distinctly wrong, to me.

Nice one PeterW, the voice of reason again. A good plan/ gives me a bit of an idea of what I think they're doing tmrw: today 2nd-in-C blocked (big FO thermalite jobs on their sides + one 9" block inner course line) on the founds. Concrete something tmrw don't knowv what.. but at last, a decent day. Apparantly on wednesday the Timber Frame Co chap is site visiting so my 2nd-in-C told me. He's liasing with the BCO (whose coming wed too) which he prefers to do/ take the reins here saves me calling & forgetting to get him out at correct points.

Thanks @newhome.. if only I had some of your placid calm! I did for a year when I moved here, 1st time ever/ proper newhome calm it was flippin marvellous (& by god I'll get back there again by hook or crook).. but then n'bors collective bullying started etc (& this build ontop of that..) kind of spoilt it but I'll get there again. I do trust my builder to do a good job; whether I trust him/ them not to have made an error (350mm too deep) & covering it up tho.. I just don't know, or will I ever know? but this is my strong hunch.

I don't think its remembered how stressful having a build is tbh, especially a 1st timer/ 1st house.. I had a friend round yesterday whose had a decade+ of it & as calm as you like knows exactly how to deal with builders, how to 'play' them, how not to stress about xyz. I bet he wasn't on his 1st build project tho. Why am I so stressed (therefore asking a chain of Q's/ for answers)-? bc it IS fkn stressful that's why!! I'm not interested in 'limelight' or look at me! attention for fks sake. I'm just genuinely stressed, nothing more.

Sorry redoctober, Ive absolutely no idea what you're referring to, at all. Its so easy to form the totally incorrect picture, that I have a couple of cowboy builders at work. I do not. They are the best around (you pay extra for their services- its wellknown). I just don'y understand a few things, that's all. Its not a wind up (why would a thread asking simply if huge rain + concreting is ok.. be a wind up? its a question.) Why couldn't you instead just help me out on the exposed area of ground under the original founds, as I said was my current head-scratch/ concern? why couldn't you help me out on this instead of a grand, very condascending & sniffy lecture at myself red october??

I think its sensible to wait until the floor is built/ the slab done. Then I can ask the Q's. I'm not so concerned about the extra D, if, the dividing floor can be adjusted. Absolutely fine. In fact I gain some inches as said.. but what I -don't want is all the excess added to lower room: bc then I have a balcony & fr doors opening out @ approx only head-height from surrounding ground. That will look weird, reduce the view (& Im looking straight into a giveway sign) & just be generally 'wrong'. Anyway I think a more pressing concern, is the area of exposed ground below the original wall. This of couse is where the extra depth is most pertinent as it were. I don't like seeing it & I think I can see some bits crumbling away.. now THIS is stressful. Anyone know what's likely to be done here?

2nd -in-C just turned up. Trench already being dug for drain pipe off top of founds. Also they're gonna block it today too. So soon after poured on fri AM? in all that rain & 2" water been sitting on founds since?

Much appreciate this Nick, & understood (& thanks for ideas on the dogmuck- just such support is kind). But I'm fine with being told to fkoff & make the tea/ Im doing it! as its in good humour, he's an ace bloke. I -do- trust them both, they have the best reputation around. I just need to establish this floor position, & then.. I need to discuss possibly shifting the dividing floor to fit with this new mark. That's all.

Hi Russell. This is the plan: its -not- a "Full Plans" type: to reiterrate, the build is commencing via a 'Build Notice' involving my builder asking me for only critical dims on a simplified plan showing door positions/ window/ etc/ etc. It doesn't require u-values, or similar intricate details. This plan probably shows more than he asked me to do, but, he was very happy with it. My 2nd-in-command has a copy, which I see he's got in his digger (sitting idle at the mo), & he was happy with it. If neither happy, or anything whatoever unclear.. they'd have Q'd me. We discussed the interior adjacent room original floor levels (the broken lines), I explained the important 350mm step down from this point. He understood. I think (bc he gave me a full plans example, to get the gist & glean the basics he needs from it) the broken line is standard 'plans' designated symbol, for an existing floor level I'm not sure.. but, I walked him through this simple plan focussing on this point/ my broken line, the ground level line near it, & the 350mm new floor mark: he understood perfectly. Thanks all.

I think this is the idea, IE my gutter on the far (road) side, will go into a drain grate > down into pipe, this will go around front of EXT .. & meet this drain out pipe going to my hedge/ ditch. Anyway I just cannot dare suggest anything. Not to this guy. It'll be a sudden square up to me & "LOOK.. I'm doing this you make the fkn tea" its not worth risking him grump & pulling off the job for a week as a slap-in-face to me (as all builders know they have the power to, causing huge stress on customer as they have no idea if/ when he'll be back). In meantime my only concern right now/ at this stage (assuming he won't have destroyed my hedge putting drain out to it) is the damn height of ground floor I'll have, which alot is dependent upon. I had a friend round, whose had alot of building work done, who says"'ontop of the founds you'll have your 18" (2x block H) PLUS *sand layer, *insulation layer, *concrete top scree etc.. so he's built it to your level you wanted" IE he thinks its 18" PLUS let's call it 9" of these ***. I say no, these *** go within the 18", the only figure I need to establish floor level is 18" up from founds. Whose right?

Ok thanks, understood. Im sitting here waiting/ 2nd-in-C said he'd do this pipe > ditch monday 1st thing.. I must make sure he doesn't destroy my beech/ holly hedge, or, dig across gdn to stream as orig planned.. so my day held up until he comes, or looking like maybe not today).

@ProDave ok thanks understood. Its very solid clay, uniformly so, so that's makes sense.. I'll google french drains. With regard to the TF construction/ inner course: I think I'm right that the dividing floor between my two rooms, is not fixed in after the whole 2 floors' height of TF is made, but rather the lower room wall's made > then the diving floor > then the top floor-? I've got a bit of a tricky one regarding determining the placement of the floor, now I do seem to have approx 10" extra D (still seems to me, tho my builder adamant this is not the case): a bonus 10" if true, but, does mean I need to carefully reconsider the floor position.

Haha -thanks for the edit @Onoff Btw, this 100mm drain off the excess water pipe (still 2" sitting on the founds).. is this normal? I mean I understand to block ontop the founds it needs to F.Off, but why not either just pump it or even me bail it out, saving the digger tracks bodging my front lawn.. let alone a 1ftx 4ft deep trench having to slice right across its width to the hedge for the pipe.

Yes BCO want it, its going into my stream on my land. Tubbs & edward post. evil plan. edit.

Yes the one with my quote in it showing my evil plan already!