Roger440

Easy for you to say we should pay a bit more, without considering the consequences. There is no succesful economy in the world with very high energy prices. All the advanced economies were built off cheap energy. If everyone had high energy prices, then it would level itself out, but thats not what is happening. We are just backing ourselves into an economic corner. I dont think the wider effects of a failing economy can be overstated. Accepting that there are other significant reasons for the state of our economy. Either you are blind to the wider effects, or you are OK wih impoverishing your fellow citzens. Ill let you declare which, but im pretty sure i know which it is. Its also quite clear that this government and the previous one, wants the highest possible electricity prices. Their actions prove that beyond doubt. Why, is probably a whole other thread. Probably not for this forum. PS, Electric furnaces cant make virgin steel. You seem to either not know that, overlooked it, or consider it doesnt matter in an increasingly unstable world. Again, ill let you explain which it is.

That particular one is personal monetary gain. Thats obvious with only a small amount of digging. But, sadly, thats the world we are in now. In any sensible world, they would all be in prison.

Truth is, detail is sparse, beyond it being £13bn of taxpayer money, to try and micromanage people and their homes. The result, as always with such schemes will be a disaster, grant havesters ride into the sunset with bags of cash, and the taxpayer gets to pay to sort out the mess. Thats barely got started on the ECO4 nonsense, the remedial costs of which will doubtless run into billions. But whatever the detail, it wont reduce the price of electricity, and will, almost certainly, increase it. I dont find it credible to believe Ed has extract an extra £13bn of funding from the tresuary.

Certainly seems like it. Similar threads, posted reeguarly, all of which lead to exactly the same debate every time.

Insane? No. Either making lots of money or fully paid up members of the cult.

You are clutching at straws now. Stop being ridiculous. You cannot possibly argue that prices have come because you have fitted PV. You know full well that not what i mean, or any of the debate, at any level, has been about.

You used the wrong word there. "would" be lower is "sholud" be lower. But itsnt and wont be due to market structure. In fact it made it more expensive.

My understanding from the various news articles was it WAS coming from bills, but granted its not entirely clear. I made it over £400 per household using simple maths. Even if its from other than bills, its still 13bn!!

Its a given, because theres been action to make it otherwise. Nor any serious proposed action that might bring prices down. However, theres been plenty of actions that are pushing costs up. Based on actions, not words, prices cannot come down. Prvate PV is entirely seperate from the price of electricity that one buys from an energy company. If theres a proposal for a commercial PV array, that will provide free energy and circumvent the market price peggging, please do tell? As it currently stands the consumer wont benefit from the "free" PV. The company who installed it will in the shape of mad profits.

My point is, you, and others, including government, keep saying renewables is going to bring prices down. Its not. Why cant we be honest and say, electricity prices are going to go up, probably a lot. Possibly cripplingly so. The effects of which are going to be widespread and painful.

The new 13bn grant/subsidised loan wheeze to fit heat pumps, batteries and solar. More grant harverters incoming.

And this is why prices wont come down. The status quo suits everyone involved, all printing money as fast as they can. The rest of your 3 monthly, near identical posts isnt really relavant, nothing will change unless some structural changes to the market are made. They are not likely (putting it mildly) to be made, so prices just keep going up. Prices wont come down unless some action to do so takes place. That will impact someones profit somewhere. So isnt going to happen. Indeed, Ed just ADDED £300 a year to everyones bills just 2 weeks ago. You clearly dont think so either, given your refusal to demonstrate the courage of your convictions. In the meantime, you can continue to discuss the same theoreticals over and over. Wont make a blind bit of difference. When serious changes are made to the market, that will be a great time to discuss.

Lots of words. Ignores my point entirely. When will my electricity prices go down? Odd you ignored my generous offer. I wonder why?

No it wont. Not in any meaningful timeframe. If you genuinely believe that, lets bet on it. 6 years from now, proceeds to charity of your choice. As for reform of levy and taxes, Ed just added £300 per household per year with his latest grant harvesting scheme. That will help!!!!

Good summary right there! And pretty reflective of a large chunk of society now. Net zero seems to have created a significant sized cult. No idea how it ends though..............................bankruptcy?

Thanks for all the info. As always, hard to know what to do. The cavity AND IWI gives a wall that meets current standard, which i hadnt thought was realistically achievable. Im more keen on heavily insulating the extension and do rather less in the old part which is 2 ft thick stone walls, so lots of unknowns and variables. Good news is, floor is concrete, albeit uninsulated (as far as i know, laid in 19080.) And yes the rainscreen will be ventilated. All pretty conventional.

Came very close to fitting 2 in my office and "clean room" in my workshop. Well, the propane filled ones, so no need the an F gas person. Sadly, my "electricity supply" issue means that ill need to go oil for that too. Lots of second hand boilers around at the moment for bugger all money. And easy to DIY. Which is a shame, because this would have been much simpler.

I know you dont want to, but id be talking to these guys for an "all in the box" solution. I found them very helpful when i was looking at an off grid property. At the very least it will give you an idea of whats possible and the costs. https://www.energy-solutions.co.uk/applications/off-grid/easygrid

Good point, missed that. Got those at work. Dont think id want them in my house though.

Thanks for the explanation. I see 2 issues preventing me here. One, i wouldnt have the first clue about how to manage or deal with the electronic/IT side of all that.. But probably more importantly, if it subsequently showed a problem, that would mean major rework to deal with it. Thats not something i can do. If i do something it has to be right first time. Paying for WUFI is yet more money not spent on actual upgrades. Its not about justfying it, you still have to have it. If it just ended at that report it wouldnt be so bad. But it doesnt. As i suspected, and you essentially confirm using a ubakus model isnt without risk. Which leaves doing nothing as the only "risk free" option. Which, im not keen on as the extension is really quite poor thermally, not helped by fronting into the prevailing wind. The old stone part of the house is far better in that regard. As regard joist ends, that something ive yet to establish what has been done. If its through to the cavity, that probably the end of cavity fill ideas.

Nothing much, aside from no insulation other than in the roof and ancient failed double glazing. I knew all that when i bought it though, so that was my choice. But it does have a relatively new, perfectly adequate oil system and keeps us nice and warm. Sure i "could" replace it with a heat pump, but the obvious blockers are cost (substantial) , woeful incoming electrical supply (60amp (has to run my workshop too)) , and probably more importantly, the unreliability of the incoming power supply, which is just what it is out here. If i go to an ASHP, im going to freeze in the event of another multi day power outage. Currently i can fire up the generator to keep the basics on including the heating. Id need a rather larger generator to keep a house with an ASHP running. Lets call that another £2k. Are you able to expand on how you got an ASHP system for £4k? SimonD in another thread, when i asked why ASHP's cost so much to fit showed his workings for a house just completed and it was £11k just for materials. So, id guess at least a £15k job. Thats a vast difference. As you can imagine, the payback at £15k is essentially never, as oil is at least as cheap, if not cheaper than an ASHP. Even at £4k it wont payback, but one might choose to do it anyway for future proofing.

If thats what other people are happy with then thats good for them. Ive lived like that, and have absolutely no desire to do so again. There plenty of opportunity not to live like that in the UK.

Not with the things i wanted i couldnt. Well not for this money. I guess i could have bought a small house on a normal street with a postage stamp garden and single garage that was super efficent. But then my life would be pointless. I would simply die of boredom. But, hey, one less person consuming resources.

Who do i vote for? Id like a warm cheap to run home. Problem is, to get that i have to spend out big. Bigger than makes any sense. I aquired a bigger oil tank instead so i can be more choosy when i buy my oil. And the old tank gets recyled as a tractor food tank.

This. Was no issue if i didnt do the cavity, but U value not as good, obviously. Regardless of what i do, there will probably be an additional rainscreen of Hardie plank or similar outside