Renovation of Ellesmere Bungalow.

Reading that summary, I can only shake my head and wonder what is the great attraction of wireless controls and throwing an "app" into the mixture?

 

Most ordinary systems with hard wired thermostats and hard wired programmers "Just Work"

What heat loss assessments and instructions did they leave?

 

Have you managed to check the daily energy use of it? We're using about 32 to 35kwh a day atm, likely to hit 40kwh during this current cold spell? (whole house so includes cooking, dish washer and washing machine/tumble dryer)

" i discovered it had been set to a particular schedule for those out at work all day - ie on for a couple of house in the morning, low during the day, warmer for the evening and off at night"

 

So the system was not commissioned at all.

 

Do these installers know how to set up heat pump systems.

The people who commission the system and sign off everything for the Government grant are coming next week.  We have instructions for everything except the Digistat!  And the rest of the stuff, we are advised to leave well alone.  Apart from adjusting the radiators.

I agree with the wireless stuff - far better to have a wired system that we can control - with instructions!  I hate Apps and it didnt work from my house so that was a waste of time.  I guess there is some way of connecting it to Mums internet so I can control it remotely and I shall have to find out. 

 

Today Mum rang and told me that while the house was lovely when they got up, it had turned itself down to 16oC - ie, back to the origonal schedule at 8.30am.  Luckily I was able to tell them how to boost the temperature, till I can get there and amend the schedule again.  What a nightmare for them 🙁they can do without these programming issues.

 

 

It is difficult to assess the energy use as it has been on and off since it was installed.  We took the old heating system out on the 7th, leaving them with plug in radiators over the weekend. The system was finished on Friday 15th but we need a few weeks to really see if its helping.  16th may have been the day it heated the whole water tank as that is the biggest use. 

So today I went over to the house and while it wasnt cold, it was not warm either. The Digistat said 18C and I used the App to increase that to 22o while I took Mum to her hairdressers and Waitrose shop.  Having agreed with ProDaves comments, I rang and asked the electrician who did the install to finda simple wired thermostat that Mum and Dad have a chance of being able to use.  He suggested a Nest thing but I said I wanted wired. After a while, he sent details of a Honeywell one, whichis the exact one they had for the old system. Perfect.  I am now waiting for them to say when they will come and move the old one - its still on the wall but as its quite close to a radiator, it will need moving.

They didnt seem keen but I think its the only/best way.

Back at the house, it seemed warmer but still not up to the 22oC.  Also the hot water was only lukewarm 🙁

I changed the actual Digistat to increase the temperature to 21oC all day with 16oC at night. The house is certainly not cold but I dont think it was up to 21oC when i left. We shall see what happens next.

Poor Mum and Dad are so tired of all these problems (as am I) and I do think it would have been much easier to put radiators and a gas boiler in.  Its a shame I have principles and wanted to do the 'right thing'.  😒

 

So obvious question why not Weather Compensation, then who gives a stuff about the thermostat? Your trying to use the ASHP like a boiler, running against the thermostat.

 

A simple timer/cylinder thermostat switches between CH and DHW, because of the stupid way Grant wants to install as S plan.

Edited November 22 by JohnMo

23 hours ago, JohnMo said:

So obvious question why not Weather Compensation, then who gives a stuff about the thermostat? Your trying to use the ASHP like a boiler, running against the thermostat.

 

A simple timer/cylinder thermostat switches between CH and DHW, because of the stupid way Grant wants to install as S plan.

Would you like to explain that so i can understand? 

1 minute ago, TheMitchells said:

Would you like to explain that so i can understand? 

The traditional way to operate a boiler (in the UK) was to run a boiler at an elevated temperature, have hot radiators and bounce of a the thermostat. So heating on heating off, repeat. When timer stops house gets cold repeat the next day. Boiler efficiency is dire, the boiler doesn't condense, so gets 80% if you are lucky. 

 

A heat pump operated that way takes a large hit in running costs. The best way is either Weather Compensation, so flow temp changes with outside temperature. The heat pump ticks away at a very high efficiency keeping the house at a stable temperature 24/7. The other version of this is to have a small setback at night, but essentially the same strategy for flow temp varying with outside temp.

 

Your installer should really have left the heat pump operating this way.

 

Search on here for weather (see attached)

 

Heat-Pump-Guide.pdf

On 23/11/2024 at 20:22, JohnMo said:

A heat pump operated that way takes a large hit in running costs. The best way is either Weather Compensation, so flow temp changes with outside temperature. The heat pump ticks away at a very high efficiency keeping the house at a stable temperature 24/7. The other version of this is to have a small setback at night, but essentially the same strategy for flow temp varying with outside temp.

 

Your installer should really have left the heat pump operating this way.

Thank you, our system does have Weather Compensation so hopefully that will help.  And yes, I have set it to be on most of the day at a general temp of 21oC only dropping to 16oC at night.  The programme left by the electrician was for 21oC between 6.30 and 8.30am, dropping to 16oC till 4.30pm, then on again for the evening and off at night.  Obviously not suitable for two 85 yr olds at home all day!  while there yesterday (Sunday) I insisted that the company boss came out as there was no hot water and even when boosting the thermostat to 28oC, it was barely reaching 19! 

When he came out, and checked things, including speaking to the electrician who was there Wednesday (his business partner), we eventually realised that the switch controlling the hot water was turned off!!  You couldnt make it up!  So after turning it back on - the water started heating up and when they rang me later in the day, the place was warm enough. 

I do wonder if the probelms occurred when the 2 electricians were rushing to get everything installed and running on the original Friday, when they wanted to get away by lunchtime.  🤔

Tomorrow an electrician is coming to replace the wireless Digistat with a Honeywell Home wired thermostat. Then Wednesday the commissioning engineer will come to check everything and commission it!  Hopefuly by then, I can report it is all working to perfection and the company have sent mum a large bouquet to apologise for the week of incompetance.  😄 Fingers crossed.

If you look carefully there is a box which controls the hot water timetable, but just to the left of it, is a simple switch in the OFF position!  that supplies the power to the box.......

 

 

8 minutes ago, TheMitchells said:

dropping to 16oC at night.

I would set that so it's only 2 degs below normal day time setting, otherwise being a low temperature system, it will take a long time to recover. If it recovers quickly you have the flow temperature set way too high.

 

The way Grant do things from what I read, normal gas engineers install the heat pumps, Grant Corporate Engineer does the commissioning. 

I should have known it wasnt going to happen.  The Commissioning engineer is now coming next week to give the company time to sort this all out.  Which is a good job.

 

The electrician was moved to today (wednesday) as the new Honeywell thermostat was arriving yesterday. However, when i arrived this morning, the electrician was resetting the programme on the old one!  He assumed I was not intelligent enough to programme the correct temperatures!🙄 Despite being one of the two who had left it on the factory set schedule, for those out at work all day, not 85yr olds sititng at home all day!! Grrrr!

Then i found out, he had not been told about the new thermostat, and questioned why we wanted a wired in version and not wireless😖😩

He left shortly after, saying he'd be back tomorrow with the new thermostat to wire in.........   

The Commissioning chap came round yesterday, checked the system and listened to our tales of woe.  He said that the flow temperature was 10oC lower than recommended and the water temp was only at 44oc when it was specified at 50oC. But apart from that, all was okay.  After some tweaks to correct the temperatures, he left.  The house is warm enough and Dad seemed to listen to his advice re maintaining a fairly constant temperature, rather than trying to turn off things then expecting them to warm up when turned back on.  (Even though I had explained the same several times before - but then I'm just his daughter! What would I know........)

 

So we spent £7k, plus a £7.5k grant from the Government, and from start to finish it took from 11th November till 3rd December to install and make it all work satisfactorily.  Not really the  best advertisment for ASHP's but if it keeps the old folks warm enough and saves some money from the old system, then I'm happy.

16 hours ago, TheMitchells said:

Even though I had explained the same several times before - but then I'm just his daughter! What would I know.

 

You should have pointed them to Part 2 of several by Zoothorn