Neighbours right of way and new water pipe

[Roz]

Any solicitors on here? ?

 

So we have land with a track around it. We are converting a barn. The track leads to some fields, the owners of which have right of way over the track. We knew this. 

 

We are about to start some trench work to connect water and electricity down a different lane, to reach the boundary of our property. When word about this spread, the field owners thought they would 'come in' on the work and lay water pipes too, as they currently get their water off an old connection from another neighbour who were the previous owners of the barn. They're contributing to the cost of the trench

 

They asked if they could then open the track and lay pipe down it. I said in theory this was fine but we'd want to get an agreement drawn up and this would be at their expense. They are now saying it's in their deeds to be able to dig in the track and lay pipe, even in places where there was not previously pipe. 

 

I think the section they are referring to is: "...hereby transferred a right to connect to any mains services which lie on or under the land hereby transferred, the person exercising such right causing as little damage and inconvenience as possible and making good and reinstating the land as soon as any connection is made to the reasonable satisfaction of the buyer and their successors in title."

 

But, what constitutes a mains service? As surely there aren't any that lie on or under the land?

 

Currently their water comes from our neighbour to the left, but that neighbour wants to cut that off as its an old arrangement and they want to go onto a meter. They want to lay pipe in a place it currently is not there. 

 

We just want to do things right, in case of any future problem or sale etc. Thanks in advance!

 

Edited April 30, 2019 by Roz
detail

[Ferdinand]

I think "mains service" would include the obvious.

 

This phrase, of the bit you quoted, seems to be the key to me:

 

Quote

lie on or under the land hereby transferred

 

What is this transfer? And who's benefit is it for?

 

If the field owners' were not a party to the transfer of the track (to you?), then I do not see how the right to install services could apply to them.

 

Probably need more information, but that looks like the angle of interest.

 

Ferdinand

 

Edited April 30, 2019 by Ferdinand

[Roz]

4 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

I think "mains service" would include the obvious.

 

This phrase, of the bit you quoted, seems to be the key to me:

 

 

What is this transfer? And who's benefit is it for?

 

If the field owners' were not a party to the transfer of the track (to you?), then I do not see how the right to install services could apply to them.

 

Probably need more information, but that looks like the angle of interest.

 

Ferdinand

 

So we just saw them and they had since realised they were looking at the wrong part of their deeds - their deeds said they had this right to put in water pipes over another horse field, so seems we're all in agreement that an agreement needs to be drawn up (at their expense) if they want to lay new pipes over our land. phew!

[Ferdinand]

47 minutes ago, Roz said:

So we just saw them and they had since realised they were looking at the wrong part of their deeds - their deeds said they had this right to put in water pipes over another horse field, so seems we're all in agreement that an agreement needs to be drawn up (at their expense) if they want to lay new pipes over our land. phew!

 

So have you worked out the amount you can charge them to put a pipe through your track ? ? Ie £1 less than it would cost them to do it the other way ?.

[Roz]

On 30/04/2019 at 10:09, Ferdinand said:

 

So have you worked out the amount you can charge them to put a pipe through your track ? ? Ie £1 less than it would cost them to do it the other way ?.

No ?but I did think it would be worth checking whether it affects the value of our plot with an estate agent!

[Roz]

On 30/04/2019 at 09:19, Roz said:

So we just saw them and they had since realised they were looking at the wrong part of their deeds - their deeds said they had this right to put in water pipes over another horse field, so seems we're all in agreement that an agreement needs to be drawn up (at their expense) if they want to lay new pipes over our land. phew!

They're now saying they do have this right and have served us with a 7 day notice period and won't provide real evidence of the right ? just a small picture that doesn't refer to any title numbers, and they won't send a bigger picture that does, and an image of the plan referred to. I am trying to get the necessary information from land registry.

[soapstar]

not sure if this is relevant but we had to write up a deed of servitude with a local land owner who's land we needed to dig up in order for laying water pipes...expense was on us and we paid the solicitor fee plus some BS amount to the land owner that he was entitled to.. ?

[Roz]

4 minutes ago, soapstar said:

not sure if this is relevant but we had to write up a deed of servitude with a local land owner who's land we needed to dig up in order for laying water pipes...expense was on us and we paid the solicitor fee plus some BS amount to the land owner that he was entitled to.. ?

we had originally agreed that they would pay for a solicitor to organise any documentation that was needed, but now they have changed their minds and are saying they already have the right, but they won't provide real evidence ? we just want to know that all the legal documentation is in place, as have been advised we might struggle with mortgages if its not. I'm so baffled about why they won't provide the evidence. 

 

[Mr Punter]

These issues can cost lots of money to resolve.

 

Without the title plan and deeds it is not possible to give an answer.

 

Why would the value of your land be reduced by having a water pipe under the track?

[soapstar]

11 minutes ago, Roz said:

we had originally agreed that they would pay for a solicitor to organise any documentation that was needed, but now they have changed their minds and are saying they already have the right, but they won't provide real evidence ? we just want to know that all the legal documentation is in place, as have been advised we might struggle with mortgages if its not. I'm so baffled about why they won't provide the evidence. 

 

sounds to me that you definitely need to get a solicitor involved, i hate paying them but they could potentially save you thousands down the line

[Roz]

7 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

These issues can cost lots of money to resolve.

 

Without the title plan and deeds it is not possible to give an answer.

 

Why would the value of your land be reduced by having a water pipe under the track?

I was just worried about it as had read varied opinions online, so needed advice, but i spoke to an estate agent and they weren't concerned about value, but were very concerned that if it wasn't tied up legally then we might struggle to get a mortgage ?

 

7 minutes ago, soapstar said:

sounds to me that you definitely need to get a solicitor involved, i hate paying them but they could potentially save you thousands down the line

Yes I'm going to do my best to get an appointment with someone that might be able to help. They all seem very busy and I am waiting on call backs! I don't want to throw a spanner in the works of their water laying, I just don't want to get ourselves into a pickle down the line, and seems so odd the way this is going down!

[Mr Punter]

I imagine they are not keen on racking up legal fees - which could be £££ for something where they consider they already have a right.  What did the solicitor who did your purchase conveyancing say?

[Roz]

1 minute ago, Mr Punter said:

I imagine they are not keen on racking up legal fees - which could be £££ for something where they consider they already have a right.  What did the solicitor who did your purchase conveyancing say?

Yes but all I want is to see the evidence they have got so i have peace of mind but they won't provide it, even though it won't cost them anything. 

 

I haven't asked them as our solicitor doesn't work there anymore but will try them anyway

[Mr Punter]

Yes I think it makes sense to get legal advice.  Just make sure you don't spend a fortune on something that has no value or potentially getting involved in an expensive dispute.  I do not think the mortgage company will be interested in there being someone's pipe under the track.

[Triassic]

agree the scope of work, put it in writing and both sign the piece of paper, get a signed copy each, file away and forget, job done. After all you are both good neighbours, aren’t you? No need for legal stuff for a water pipe!?

[scottishjohn]

I would want a clause that says any subsidence of the roads or tracks they cross will be their liability to repair for a term of 10 years  .

 

If they quibble at that --it tells you they going to do a rough arse job