TF - soundproofing and loadbearing

[Bored Shopper]

In another topic re brick vs TF someone mentioned that TFs are very sensitive to noise transmission inside house (room to room), and also slamming a heavier than normal door may be an issue. From collective experience, how often does this happen? What are the ways around it?

 

We are deciding re building method at the moment, and each one has lots of pros and cons, but for us key points to consider are:

 

- loadbearing strength of internal walls (lots of heavy cabinets to hang)

- room to room noise transmission (a family of extremely sensitive sleepers! plus a galloping cat)

- wider than standard entrance door and lots of internal doors which we like shut

 

Opinions are welcome, thank you

[Mr Punter]

I have brick and block on the ground floor and timber frame 1st, 2nd and 3rd.  Same spec of heavy doors throughout.  I don't notice better or worse sound transmission. If slamming is an issue you can get some strip that fits to the stops that dampens the final few mm and stops rattles and slams.

 

For room-to-room, look at doubling up plasterboard if you go TF and seal the bottom of the board with mastic before you put skirtings.

 

Strengthwise TF is fine.  Make sure the frame designer knows what you are putting and where.  A lining of 18mm OSB is usually fine for most loads and really stiffens up the wall.

[Bored Shopper]

@Mr Punter Thank you!

[nod]

Your best route for soundproofing is MF studs 

If you have heaven cabinets I studs are stronger than timber 

and perfectly straight 

50 mil 70 mil 90 or jumbo 150 

[scottishjohn]

the gyproc  jumbo 150 stud walling 

I had to use that to split a showroom up as i was making 3 units out of one big building

for fire proofing as the units were different tennents  the spec was one layer of 19mm plank dry wall followed by 2layer of fireline dry wall --

this was onboth sides of the stud frame work ,with a fire curtain hung in centre 

 it is absolutly sound proof  and the wall is 5m tall sloping down to 3.5 at other end .

 so yes if you  want sound proof use  jumbo studding and thick layers of plaster board  .

I was worried that it would not take the weight of all that plasterboard  19+30=49mm per side --thats alot of weight 

still there 10 years later and no cracks in skim coat

 

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by scottishjohn

[nod]

3 hours ago, scottishjohn said:

the gyproc  jumbo 150 stud walling 

I had to use that to split a showroom up as i was making 3 units out of one big building

for fire proofing as the units were different tennents  the spec was one layer of 19mm plank dry wall followed by 2layer of fireline dry wall --

this was onboth sides of the stud frame work ,with a fire curtain hung in centre 

 it is absolutly sound proof  and the wall is 5m tall sloping down to 3.5 at other end .

 so yes if you  want sound proof use  jumbo studding and thick layers of plaster board  .

I was worried that it would not take the weight of all that plasterboard  19+30=49mm per side --thats alot of weight 

still there 10 years later and no cracks in skim coat

 

 

We are doing exactly that at the moment

[Dreadnaught]

19 hours ago, nod said:

Your best route for soundproofing is MF studs 

 

Prompted by these comments about using metal studs for partition walls internally, I learning about this. Wondering whether I should use metal studs for my project.

• Why aren't metal studs more widely used in residential projects? Is it just cost?
• What are the pros and cons of metal stud over traditional wooden ones?

 

Edited December 6, 2018 by Dreadnaught

[scottishjohn]

joiners don,t like the thin webs for attaching too

or thats what  iwas told  up here 

local builders merchant had never even heard of them 

I coud be using them in my own next house ,as the man says --they are straight

and thats exactly how i split the workshop -- killer big solid blocks +butress up to 8ft then studding to roof 

couldn,t lift them any further .LOL and we don,t nice things like that platform to hire locally 

[Jeremy Harris]

57 minutes ago, Dreadnaught said:

 

Prompted by these comments about using metal studs for partition walls internally, I learning about this. Wondering whether I should use metal studs for my project.

• Why aren't metal studs more widely used in residential projects? Is it just cost?
• What are the pros and cons of metal stud over traditional wooden ones?

 

 

If you go to France you'll find that metal stud walls are very much the normal method of constructing internal walls.  The French equivalents to the big DIY sheds are full of the metal stud stuff and it seems pretty much everyone uses it.  Here we seem to have a tradition of using timber studs and have stuck with it, I've no idea why, other than the old "I've always done it this way" problem that I'm sure many of us have encountered.

 

Metal studs are often quicker to put up and will be stiffer for a given section (the Young's Modulus of steel is around 10 to 20 times higher than that for timber), but it's not necessarily a given that steel will provide better soundproofing, as being stiff, and have much less internal sound absorption, means that on it's own a steel framed partition wall probably won't be any better acoustically than a timber one. If built as a double partition, with an air gap, which can be done with steel as it's so much stiffer (less thickness needed for a given stiffness) then the acoustic performance can be very good, but this isn't how normal domestic type steel framed stud walls are usually built.  No reason why they shouldn't, though, other than a bit of added thickness.  They still need internal insulation plus a decent thickness of plasterboard, though.

[scottishjohn]

easy enough to fill with acoustic batons will give some insulation as well

this is maybe why this type of studding is used in offices etc

 

easy to do ,and good  fire +soundproofing

[Bored Shopper]

Dear All, thank you very much for your comments, we're gradually ploughing through them (getting used to the jargon!) ?

[scottishjohn]

see gyproc "white book" for all the info you need on  how to use them  and all plaster products and fireproof times for different boards 

you can download it from gyproc site

 

https://www.british-gypsum.com/literature/white-book/partitions

[nod]

2 hours ago, Dreadnaught said:

 

Prompted by these comments about using metal studs for partition walls internally, I learning about this. Wondering whether I should use metal studs for my project.

• Why aren't metal studs more widely used in residential projects? Is it just cost?
• What are the pros and cons of metal stud over traditional wooden ones?

 

There not any cheaper

Most joiners don’t like them

Some house builders use them

 

pros 

Perfectly straight 

Easier for services 

Better sound proofing 

Fire proof 

 

I’ve used them on a weekly basis for the last thirty years 

Just find them to be so versatile 

 

The few studs I have in our build Mainly bathrooms I’ve done in metal 

Absolutly square and plumb

anc no shrinkage 

 

[Mr Punter]

3 hours ago, Dreadnaught said:

 

Prompted by these comments about using metal studs for partition walls internally, I learning about this. Wondering whether I should use metal studs for my project.

• Why aren't metal studs more widely used in residential projects? Is it just cost?
• What are the pros and cons of metal stud over traditional wooden ones?

 

 

And the cons of metal:

 

Sharp edges

Cable routes need grommets through studs

Not structural - need timber around doors etc.

More tricky to fix to

More tricky to cut

Can rattle

Difficult to separate from plasterboard when demolished

 

 

[nod]

Nah met set is structural 

I stud is much stronger than timber 

Very easy to patress 

no need for grumets 

Far quicker to wire than timber 

[scottishjohn]

all I would say is check the white book on the do,s and don,ts --its all there 

definately need wood where you  fit door frames 

[Bored Shopper]

(making notes)

 

[DavidFrancis]

@scottishjohn nod is referring to Metsec studs, not British Gypsum ones. Look at their web site - they do structural studs.