Tim Alsop Posted February 13, 2019 Author Share Posted February 13, 2019 7 hours ago, nickw said: Still can't decide which system to use. Just fed up with all the "we're better, rebar/no rebar, no propping/shuttering needed, pir vs graphite, local support, and all the sales patter. What I'd like is guarantee in writing that they will send enough material , I wont have a blow out if layed correctly, they will hold my hand on the first and second pour, they will find me local tradesmen who have experience in the pumping, rendering and anything else that is specialised to the icf and not just give out some names that in reality when I speak to them they are either too expensive or not really convenient for my area. Like a holy grail that isn't to be found. I haven't got the luxury of using a contractor and so any mistakes in time or materials is going to cost me. I also met with and spoke to some customers who used (or are using at the moment) Velox, so didn't just listen to what Velox had to say - it's important to get references to get a customer perspective. When I had talked to the customers, this is when I decided, not before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humpty Dumpty Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Hi Tom have you made any progress? I used velox. Not the easiest to build with. It’s heavy and difficult to align/level and if your not very careful as you go up vertical (and horizontal) alignment can also fall out of line. It needs shoring up and bracing properly to ensure no blow outs and you need your wits about you. But you do end up with a very solid dense structure. Not for the faint hearted. Easy enough to cut with a decent circular saw. Get yourself a festool, loads of spare blades and a guide rail. A decent level and loads of decent timber for shoring up and a few hundred acrrows and a hell of a lot of decent screws. I literally got through several thousand. That’s all you need ..... and several 100 tons of concrete. I quite liked the look of Sismo which was another method I thought about and nearly went with. Would be quicker, easier and cheaper. Still not sure if I made the right choice......... perhaps maybe just?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humpty Dumpty Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 The alternative https://www.sismo.eu/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dzhou11 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 15 minutes ago, Humpty Dumpty said: The alternative https://www.sismo.eu/ This looks very interesting. Was there any reason you went with Velox rather than Sismo? Do you know it's price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humpty Dumpty Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 It was a toss up. Was a solo self build. Something to keep me out of mischief at weekends. I though velox was easier but don’t think it turned out that way. Had Sismo quoted to include assembly and pour (they do that option as do velox) inc materials and build from memory Simso was circa. 65/70k ..... all in of which assembly was circa 25/30k and you get 3D scale drawings etc.... velox quoted 50k to assemble and build and mats cost me circa 70k. There’s a trade off as I still feel Sismo isn’t as good.... terms of insulation. I also thought about using metal shuttering laid to insulation slabs to exterior pre plugged to affix to concrete prior to pour and think that would have been as quick as Simso and cheaper than both build systems. The figures above don’t include concrete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humpty Dumpty Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humpty Dumpty Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 What can go wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 16 minutes ago, Humpty Dumpty said: What can go wrong I am not quite sure what I am looking at here. Care to elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humpty Dumpty Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Whatever system you go with decide on the system first before getting planning approval. Not so much of an issue with sismo and a completely freestyle build using hired shuttering, but if you go with velox do your drawing & dims to the build system, increments of 500mm/250mm height and 1/2/1.5 meters lengthways. Minimises wastage and cutting which all makes for a quicker cheaper build. I didn’t do that and wasted material because of it. Same goes for position and sizing of windows doors etc...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humpty Dumpty Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Just now, Mr Punter said: I am not quite sure what I am looking at here. Care to elaborate? Blow out bottom of a 2.5 Mtr wall through which I lost several tons of concrete.... happened twice on the same pour..... hell of a mess and clean up job while you have trucks backing up with wet concrete. Small off cut panel = weakness which needs shoring up very well to prevent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humpty Dumpty Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Render is easy enough if you’ve got the right clobber. I went here for my machine https://www.plasterers1stopshop.co.uk/ couldnt recommend them highly enough great bunch and they’re train you to spay when you collect the machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Did you also price this in brick and block @Humpty Dumpty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humpty Dumpty Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 No was ICF from the off. Off the traditional ICF’s and I went through the lot of them my overall preference was nudura and quadlock. Of the two I think quadlock win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexphd1 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 (edited) @Humpty Dumpty Much appreciated for your genuine feedback. I respect somebody coming in telling the good the bad and the ugly on a product more than this is the best thing since sliced bread !! I was initially sold on the quad lock but I done a lot of digging on American forums and had mixed review. In a perfect world the house would be designed to the exact block size but to cut the eps icf is not a big issue. Edited February 13, 2019 by Alexphd1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humpty Dumpty Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 No worries. If it helps all good. Velox does have a tendency to warp slightly in wet weather can become a bit banana shaped which makes alignment a bit harder. So the slower the build the more the difficulty. Don’t get me wrong. Warts and all overall all said and done I do like it and wouldn’t say don’t use it. also had a few boards split through the centre during pour but noticed them and managed to brace them in time. You learn as as you go along and will make mistakes... trouble and strife shared can make it a smoother process for others. gables are difficult though and really do need lots of bracing. I tended to brace using 4x4s every 2 meters and sometimes less.... you can also insert additional timbers between the WSD boards and the bracing screw lock the walls plumb..... takes some trial and error to get it right 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexphd1 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Yeah we have made many mistakes with Nudara but will probably use it again on the 2nd build! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humpty Dumpty Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Bracing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humpty Dumpty Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, Alexphd1 said: Yeah we have made many mistakes with Nudara but will probably use it again on the 2nd build! That’s the spirit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 2 hours ago, dzhou11 said: This looks very interesting. Was there any reason you went with Velox rather than Sismo? Do you know it's price? their website is so poor with very little real information ,no construction manual ,or listing of components not for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 are you the SISMO uK agent humpty dumpty ? you post lots of velox pictures ,most of which I have may seen before on other sites--don,t see any of SISMO builds ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humpty Dumpty Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 1 minute ago, scottishjohn said: their website is so poor with very little real information ,no construction manual ,or listing of components not for me Sismo? Basically it’s an insulated metal cage which come in large format blocks and you just wire clip the cages together. It has to be used with a proprietary scaffold that clips to the cage internally to the build and holds it plumb for concrete pour..... whereas velox I built 3 storeys no scaffold (tut tut... I know but it was safe enough) , just working off the internal floor slabs with my trusty little tower and a big ladder. It can be done but with lots and lots of care..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humpty Dumpty Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 I have only built with velox but sismo was my other preference. Never built before. 1st time. Anyone with half decent carpentry skills can do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humpty Dumpty Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 (edited) A trusty warrior hoist 500kg to do all the lifting best 250 quid I ever spent Edited February 13, 2019 by Humpty Dumpty 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Walter Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 I would echo Humpty Dumptys comments on using Velox. It is a bit agricultural, hard on tools and heavy to lift/shit. Chasing for services is much harder work than with EPS formwork. Lots of care needed to keep everything plumb and we screwed small plywood squares over every intersection of three Velox boards prior to pouring to keep all joints aligned. The end result is incredibly solid with good fixability internally and externally, good for plastering and good sound insulation. We had minimal issues with Velox boards bowing and expanding but we had pretty much perfect weather for building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Walter Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 (edited) Hi, one of the issues which has arisen with our Velox build is how to support the weight of the large triple glazed windows. I assume that this is an issue with most ICF builds. The window frame is approximately 100mm deep. At first floor level the window frame sits approximately 15mm in from the exterior 35mm Velox panel. This means that it is resting entirely above the 180mm of exterior EPS insulation. The attached picture shows the "angle" we are using at ground floor level (where there is only 80mm of EPS to ground FFL) to support the window frames, bolted through into the concrete floor. I would be interested to hear what solutions other people have used in ICF builds. Edited March 1, 2019 by D Walter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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