Architect PM Services

[Jenjen]

Hi

We have just received our first architect quote (2 still to receive) and there is a fairly chunky section (2.5% of construction costs and £50 per hour (I need to clarify why it is an "and" as would much prefer a single fixed fee) apportioned to 'architectural contractual administration' which includes:

-preparation and collation of tender and contract documents

- issuing instructions to contractor

-issuing certificates under the build contract e.g. payment certificates, practical or partial completion certificates

-valuing the works and agreeing the final amount (where there is no QS)

-dealing with contractor's application or extension of time and extra payment

- inspecting the work sat stages during the construction and preparing defect lists

 

When the time comes we will be appointing a main contractor who will project manage the entire build as part of their role. A relative works for a house building company so provided the quote is competitive it is likely they will be awarded the contract. Is it necessary to have the architect to provide the types of services listed above? It seems the majority of it is something that could be managed between myself and the main contractor but am keen to get people's views and experiences of this element of the services. The only bit I would potentially be struggling with is the tender documentation as i'm not familiar with how tender documentation should be compiled. I assume there is more to it than handing over our plans to a few builders to provide quotations. If anyone has any advice on the tender side of things that would also be most welcome.

 

For info - there is a separate fee over and above what is noted above for the architect certificate which I am fairly comfortable with.

 

Thanks in advance!

[Mr Punter]

I think if you are dealing with a main contractor it would be better to have the architect as contract administrator.  Will they also act on your behalf as Client under CDM?  If you are going down the main contractor route it important that you are left with as little financial risk as possible.

[recoveringbuilder]

I’m afraid I wouldn’t be trusting enough to let anyone else , architect or contractor to manage my build, we did price this time for a main contractor to do it all, but the prices he was quoting for goods were as much as 3 times what we knew we could get them for and although it would have been nice to put it all into someone else’s hands,it would have ended up costing us more than the house would have been worth, our main contractor is sorting out all the trades but we are supplying everything and the architect is overseeing, anything we’re not sure about he will advise, sorry but third time around all my trust has gone!

[AliMcLeod]

1 hour ago, Christine Walker said:

sorry but third time around all my trust has gone!

The lack of trust in a handing over a build to trades is a prevalent theme on BH even though a fairly large percentage here have taken on many (of the non-specialised) tasks themselves. It would be interesting to here how many people have handed over the project to a main contractor and are happy with what they got with regards to costs of goods and sub-contractors and overall service and value for money. Or perhaps a separate thread?

Edited August 23, 2018 by AliMcLeod

[Temp]

Regarding the tender documents...  Each bidder will send you a quote that includes a lot of assumptions. There will also be provisional amounts included for things like the windows, kitchen, second fix items, landscaping etc. This means you cannot just compare the bottom line on each bid as the assumptions and provisional sums may be different. The cheapest bidder might be the most expensive if he has allowed a lot less for something compared to others.  What someone has to do is go through the bids and adjust the bottom line to ensure they are all made on the same basis before you make the comparison. If its a very large project you might wish to pay your own QS to estimate the build cost. Decades ago there were reports of builders colluding over their bids and using a QS would give you a sanity check (at a price).

 

 

[nod]

3 hours ago, Jenjen said:

Hi

We have just received our first architect quote (2 still to receive) and there is a fairly chunky section (2.5% of construction costs and £50 per hour (I need to clarify why it is an "and" as would much prefer a single fixed fee) apportioned to 'architectural contractual administration' which includes:

-preparation and collation of tender and contract documents

- issuing instructions to contractor

-issuing certificates under the build contract e.g. payment certificates, practical or partial completion certificates

-valuing the works and agreeing the final amount (where there is no QS)

-dealing with contractor's application or extension of time and extra payment

- inspecting the work sat stages during the construction and preparing defect lists

 

When the time comes we will be appointing a main contractor who will project manage the entire build as part of their role. A relative works for a house building company so provided the quote is competitive it is likely they will be awarded the contract. Is it necessary to have the architect to provide the types of services listed above? It seems the majority of it is something that could be managed between myself and the main contractor but am keen to get people's views and experiences of this element of the services. The only bit I would potentially be struggling with is the tender documentation as i'm not familiar with how tender documentation should be compiled. I assume there is more to it than handing over our plans to a few builders to provide quotations. If anyone has any advice on the tender side of things that would also be most welcome.

 

For info - there is a separate fee over and above what is noted above for the architect certificate which I am fairly comfortable with.

 

Thanks in advance!

Some of the Architects fees are ridiculous 

we spent £2500 on Architect fees and have manage fine

[Jenjen]

7 hours ago, Mr Punter said:

I think if you are dealing with a main contractor it would be better to have the architect as contract administrator.  Will they also act on your behalf as Client under CDM?  If you are going down the main contractor route it important that you are left with as little financial risk as possible.

Thanks, I think the main contractor will act no our behalf under CDM. I don’t think we will get the architect to do it unless there is any reason to!?

[Jenjen]

Interestingly we have just received a quote from one of the other architects we met and their quote is pretty much £10k plus VAT all in for design, drawings, architect certificate/sign off and the co-ordination/tender set out above. It’s madness, there is over a £10k difference. We’re trying to figure out if our new quote is wrong or has something big missed out, so cynical and suspicious already! Just seems such a huge difference!! 

[Ferdinand]

15 hours ago, Jenjen said:

Interestingly we have just received a quote from one of the other architects we met and their quote is pretty much £10k plus VAT all in for design, drawings, architect certificate/sign off and the co-ordination/tender set out above. It’s madness, there is over a £10k difference. We’re trying to figure out if our new quote is wrong or has something big missed out, so cynical and suspicious already! Just seems such a huge difference!! 

 

This podcast and article will be useful background. It is with an architect called Allan Corfield who has structured his charges to give fixed payments per stage based on the work involved dividing up the normal total for a percentage of a given quote.

 

https://www.houseplanninghelp.com/hph168-an-example-of-how-much-it-costs-to-hire-an-architect-with-allan-corfield/

 

His charges are probably towards te highish end in percentage terms in the example given. IIRC it seems to be based on the top of the normal RIBA recommended range.

Edited August 24, 2018 by Ferdinand