Garden Office

[hmpmarketing]

 

Hi all,

 

I have come to 2 candidates for my garden office building, one where I would commission the shell (SIPs) and do all the other bits with separate contractors (electrics, plastering, etc) or one garden office with one supplier. I have found a very competitive price on the turnkey garden office and I am thinking about ordering it. It is similar to:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Contemporary-Garden-Office/302735127114

 

The building would be a 8mx6m structure (48sqm) and I am in doubt of if I can erect this structure or not, without the need for planning or if it would fall under permitted development (by the way, I already moved in last year)

 

My planning application states one condition:

 

Notwithstanding the provisions of Part 1 of Schedule 2 of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order, 2015 (or any Order revoking or re-enacting this Order) no extensions (including porches or dormer windows) to the dwelling houses shall be constructed or buildings shall be erected within the curtilage unless permission is granted by the Local Planning Authority on an application in that behalf. 

 

Does that prohibits me to have this garden office under permitted development? Had the law changed since I got planning (April  2016)? And if not, would I still be able to do this size based on current rules? My plot / garden area is massive, it would not take over 50% of the area around the house, and it wont be over 2.5m high.

 

Also taking advice from @ProDave at another post, I could propose this under the caravan act and make it a mobile home instead:

 

What are my options here?

 

Thanks again everyone!

 

Edited July 26, 2018 by hmpmarketing

[lizzie]

Don't know about the PD but that looks a really good price for the building!

 

[PeterW]

That looks to have removed your permitted development rights. 

 

8mx6m is building control territory and you would need to show it was moveable to class as a caravan anyway.

 

If you have permission for a garage of this size why not go back for a variation on this ..?? Or basically build a double garage with fake doors ..?? Barn doors with windows behind would make it more secure anyway. 

[hmpmarketing]

Thanks for the replies guys,

 

@PeterW I have abandoned the idea of a garage, as I plan to make the space for office work, I would definitely have issues with garage doors (and they also would be a bit of money). 

 

I am thinking perhaps on going the route @ProDave has suggested with a mobile home (I actually have the application for a lawful certificate ready) but I just want to be sure if I have permitted development rights or not before going ahead with the application (£270)

 

Making it "mobile" would not be that hard, actually this structure would not be bolted to the slab anyways

 

Appreciate any more input on this

[PeterW]

A timber framed garage clad and insulated will be just as cheap as an office with a triple bifold door though that’s a fifth of the size.

 

If it’s scales on price then you’re in for £18k at my reckoning - that gets a very nicely built “double garage” that could be internally converted to office space and potentially give you both garage and office. 

 

And it’s pointless going with a lawful development certificate as you will be wasting money as that is clearly removing your PD. 

[hmpmarketing]

3 hours ago, PeterW said:

And it’s pointless going with a lawful development certificate as you will be wasting money as that is clearly removing your PD.

 

Thanks for the feedback,

 

But the Lawful Development Certificate is in respect of stationing a mobile home in my property.... what does that have to do with Permitted development? Im missing the point.

 

[PeterW]

You can’t apply for a Lawful Development Certificate in advance of it being there ..!

 

Have you read the Guidance Notes..??

[hmpmarketing]

Just now, PeterW said:

You can’t apply for a Lawful Development Certificate in advance of it being there ..!

 

Have you read the Guidance Notes..??

Being there??

 

I already moved in last year!! If thats what you mean....

[newhome]

18 minutes ago, hmpmarketing said:

Being there??

 

I already moved in last year!! If thats what you mean....

 

In advance of the building being there. 

[PeterW]

You use a Lawful Development Certificate to either to confirm the lawful nature of something that has been there for 4 years or more; or to agree that something could be lawfully placed on the land. 

 

You already have planning permission for a building (garage) that is 48sqm. You’re saying you want to not build that but build something else in its place ..?? Correct ..??

 

what you are better doing is applying for a variation or non material amendment on that planning which will cost you £85 or so, instead of basically paying £270 to the council to agree something that you’ve basically already had agreed ...

 

@ProDave has a different position - he has a clause that says he has to remove the van but has applied to retain it using a lawful devlopment certificate. That is not what you want to do. 

 

The council could argue that your structure doesn’t meet the rules for a caravan and make you apply for planning as you have had PD removed too - any reason you want to go the harder route on this..?

[hmpmarketing]

Hi all, thanks again for your feedback, Im being thick or what….

 

What I am basically trying to  understand is this: If on my planning condition they have removed PD, so I am not allowed to station a caravan on my site at all???

[hmpmarketing]

4 minutes ago, PeterW said:

what you are better doing is applying for a variation or non material amendment on that planning which will cost you £85 or so, instead of basically paying £270 to the council to agree something that you’ve basically already had agreed ...

 

Back in February I had asked the planing officer about changing that to a log cabin, but I ended up giving up on that. his reply was that,  they could not accept this change as a non-material amendment as it will result in changes to the external appearance that would materially alter the appearance of the building.

 

After reading the PDF MobilePlanningGuide, I thought that the certificate would allow me to station a "caravan" on my site (the caravan being the structure).

 

This is what I really didn't understand, am I prohibited to station a caravan when no PD is there.

[PeterW]

From inBrief

 

Under s 29 of the Caravan Sites and Control Development Act 1960, a caravan is any kind of structure built for human habitation which is capable of being moved from one place to another.

 

To be classed as a caravan, the structure must not measure more than 20m in length, 6.8m in width, and the overall height of living accommodation (measured internally from the floor at the lowest level to the ceiling at the highest level) must not be more than 3.05m.

 

Under the Mobile Homes Act 2013, a ‘twin unit caravan’ is a structure designed or adapted for human habitation which:

• is composed of not more than two sections separately constructed and designed to be assembled on a site by means of bolts, clamps or other devices; and
• is, when assembled, physically capable of being moved by road from one place to another (whether by being towed, or by being transported on a motor vehicle or trailer).

so if you can satisfy the planning officer that your 8m x 6m garden room meets that lot then you are fine however .... the maximum load width for a normal load is 2.9m so you would have show to the council how the building can be separated into not more than 2 sections to be moved. 

 

 

[hmpmarketing]

Hi @PeterW

 

 

That is perfect, thank you very much.....this makes it a bit more understandable now. I guess I would find difficult to prove this. but still amazed how companies such as:

 

http://www.valuemobilehomes.com/floorplans/

 

Can build houses this big and still get away with them being "mobile"

Edited July 26, 2018 by hmpmarketing

[PeterW]

So they produce a Guide of quite substantial legal extracts that define how they get round the rules.... 

 

The key issue would be the provision of the slab which does require PP but you already have this for the garage. So building the slab is for the “garage” then you would have to put the garden room (or caravan...) on top of this.  You don’t have PD so couldn’t relocate the slab. 

 

And I reckon given the answer you’ve already had from the council about changing the design, you’re going to be  in for a fight...!!

[Ferdinand]

One way to think about it is to take would be that the slab is starting your approved garage, and it just happens that you never finished it but put a mobile home on top. A Council vpcannot enforce completion of a project usually, I think.

 

But this is very much playing the system like a violin, so I would want careful advice from somewhere.

 

F

[hmpmarketing]

Thanks guys for the feedback, looks like I will have to make a brand new app. I wanted to avoid BC, they will required a more expensive slab for sure, and the BC fee too ? 

[Ian]

@hmpmarketing

A caravan is not a building so is not subject to the rules for "Permitted Development". You wouldn't therefore need Planning Permission as long as there is no change of use of the land. If the caravan is incidental to the main house then it will not involve creating a separate dwelling so will be okay.

 

Useful guide and free Pdf booklet here: http://www.valuemobilehomes.com/planning/

Edited August 10, 2018 by Ian