Help with kitchen renovation/ 1st house.

[PeterW]

Just be aware that when @Onoff does a job it’s usually belt and braces....

 

 

Well actually it’s 2 belts, 3 pairs of braces, a zip, buttons, Velcro and probably an overcoat and wellies for good measure ...!! You are in danger of actually finishing this in the time it’s taken him to cut some tiles .... 

[newhome]

2 minutes ago, PeterW said:

You are in danger of actually finishing this in the time it’s taken him to cut some tiles .... 

 

Come to mention it @Onoff, what are you up to?  Been mighty quiet on the bathroom front. 

[zoothorn]

Belt & braces.. I'm on his ship then. I'm like this! esp doing a big job like this for 1st time- its the ideal person to lend a hand.

 

Another Q chaps: I note onoff's staggered noggins between his battens.. but Peter's eg (i think it was/ pic of) showed no noggins/ PIR top to btm. Are noggins needed in my case? to help the PIR to wedge in or s'thing? or can I go without ok/ as is, using 25mm C'tex stuff?

[Onoff]

1 hour ago, newhome said:

 

Come to mention it @Onoff, what are you up to?  Been mighty quiet on the bathroom front. 

 

IoW for a week. Just back. Nice ales & pub grub etc.

 

About to pressure test the towel radiator loop then tanking time!

 

 

 

 

 

[PeterW]

59 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Belt & braces.. I'm on his ship then. I'm like this! esp doing a big job like this for 1st time- its the ideal person to lend a hand.

 

Another Q chaps: I note onoff's staggered noggins between his battens.. but Peter's eg (i think it was/ pic of) showed no noggins/ PIR top to btm. Are noggins needed in my case? to help the PIR to wedge in or s'thing? or can I go without ok/ as is, using 25mm C'tex stuff?

 

You don’t need noggins as they are only for structural studwork. 

[zoothorn]

Aha I got it. the frame idea being a timber 2nd/ inner course? (hence battens thicker, & perpendicular to mine I guess) .

 

Ok the Q's are gonna keep coming I'm afraid: how do I go about my RHS of PB, where it joins an old stone wall: this old wall is a good curve inwards twds top, meaning my last batten has a 1" gap at is low point (relative to the adjacent old wall) its batten flush to this wall at its top point.

 

IE the PB needs, effectively, a curved edge: shorter at top/ more at btm. Actually I have the same issue on the LHS of this wall where the PB will meet another PB/ 1st of the wall yet to do.

[PeterW]

Scribe it .....

 

move the board away by 25mm and then get a spare bit of batten and put a pencil tight to the side of the batten and run it down the wall. You’ve now scribed a copy of the line you need to cut. 

 

When you have  cut along the line, push this tight against the wall and the mark the midpoint of a batten top and bottom on the board and cut a straight line. 

 

You end up with a section that now fits the wall profile. 

[Onoff]

50 minutes ago, PeterW said:

 

You don’t need noggins as they are only for structural studwork. 

 

I nogged mine as in some cases I've 100mm ish of packing behind the studwork where I've done pockets in the wall etc. 

[zoothorn]

7 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Scribe it .....

 

move the board away by 25mm and then get a spare bit of batten and put a pencil tight to the side of the batten and run it down the wall. You’ve now scribed a copy of the line you need to cut. 

 

When you have  cut along the line, push this tight against the wall and the mark the midpoint of a batten top and bottom on the board and cut a straight line. 

 

You end up with a section that now fits the wall profile. 

 

Roughly on board w'the idea Peter.. clever. Ok so assuming Ive got the profile curve pencilled at edge of my PB, how then do I actually cut the PB edge to the shallow curve?

[PeterW]

Sharp Stanley knife will cut it to score and snap or a padsaw with a coarse blade. 

[zoothorn]

4 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

 

 

Onoff Ive gone over your reveal pics again 3x (I get the idea now- all a blur before tbh!). Ok once your upvc trims removed your window seems to be floating.. remind me how its fixed in will you, or I'm nervous removing my trims thinking the window's gonna fall out!

 

Ok screwfix tmrw to get that soudal stuff, & a gun-type standard foam can. And to pillage some 2" polystyrene from s'where.. now I get the idea to wedge in my cavity gap & then foam onto. Is norm,al polystyrene the idea (is this eps?) or do I need builders grade stuff.

 

You say your 27mm pb 'screwed on' the batten at front.. are all the PB > stud fixings screws? or is it only the reveal.. I thought the PB > stud fixings were those grey big flat head 1" or so 'roofing felt' nails.. no?

 

 

[zoothorn]

10 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Sharp Stanley knife will cut it to score and snap or a padsaw with a coarse blade. 

 

Won't it snap -only- if a straight line though? that was what I was concerned with re. my very gently curving PB edge.

[PeterW]

It will snap along any line you cut tbh if you groove it enough. 

[zoothorn]

Ok thanks Peter- I'll cross this bridge when I come to it/ a ton to do b4. The window reveal is prooving a v. tricky prospect for me a 1st timer, even with onoff's pics. Ive put up one batten only today- rest of day Ive been researching this window area/ hopefully to do tmrw.

 

I'm trying to establish what bits of my upvc frame are what: additions/ to remove (& what the 3 white things below frame are). And whether they need removing. It looks on 1st glance to be all same unit but maybe some are trims added on a flat frame? Can anybody help me out on this, looking at this pic again..

 

 

 

 

[Onoff]

37 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

 

Onoff Ive gone over your reveal pics again 3x (I get the idea now- all a blur before tbh!). Ok once your upvc trims removed your window seems to be floating.. remind me how its fixed in will you, or I'm nervous removing my trims thinking the window's gonna fall out!

 

Ok screwfix tmrw to get that soudal stuff, & a gun-type standard foam can. And to pillage some 2" polystyrene from s'where.. now I get the idea to wedge in my cavity gap & then foam onto. Is norm,al polystyrene the idea (is this eps?) or do I need builders grade stuff.

 

You say your 27mm pb 'screwed on' the batten at front.. are all the PB > stud fixings screws? or is it only the reveal.. I thought the PB > stud fixings were those grey big flat head 1" or so 'roofing felt' nails.. no?

 

 

 

Upvc windows...who knows how they're fixed! On a retro fit ideally the frames are first put in using frame fixings. Then the frame is glazed. It's been know for the windows to be held in place and JUST foamed!

 

As yours was an extension they might have used little clips that attach to the frame and get incorporated into the mortar joints as the wall was built. Afraid you won't know for sure until the trim comes off.

 

If you can't score some eps just use gun foam.

 

Don't forget a can of gun cleaner, it's essential imo when changing cans over on the gun! It doesn't last long when using so get two if you can stretch to it.

 

Pb is fixed to timber battens using special black screws often referred to as "dry wall" screws. Phosphate coated I think. 

 

Shown here 35, 45 & 55mm long. 

 

 

I bought them in bulk, cheap when Lidl were doing them last.

 

I used the longer ones to fix thru the 27mm insulated pb. 

 

 

I also bought an auto feed plasterboard screw gun again from Lidl that takes these:

 

 

Thats another story. Presume you'll be using a cordless and standard pb screws. 

 

25mm drywall screws are the shortest usually but I'm thinking you might want to go 32mm as your battens might not be dead straight. 

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/easydrive-black-phosphate-bugle-head-twin-thread-uncollated-drywall-screws-3-5-x-32mm-1000-pack/16374#product_additional_details_container

 

 

 

[zoothorn]

Bugger I thought PB was fixed on quick/quick with those felt nails.. gonna be a long job with screws & a big heavy cordless. I'm also wondering how the heck I'm going to hold the PB up to fix it on.. anyway I need to get xyz done before this prospect. I'm out of my depth again i can feel it.

 

Still chewing over this damn window area. With no experience I can't tell if I undo the trims whether the window will fall out/ if they are part of the structure of the frame or not. I might therefore have to leave them as is & just try & do the sill area.. far from easy for me just this.

 

Onoff do I need a dpm or not? as I said I found none before under the sill I took out, so if it aint broke..

[newhome]

53 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

I'm out of my depth again i can feel it.

 

Still chewing over this damn window area. With no experience I can't tell if I undo the trims whether the window will fall out/ if they are part of the structure of the frame or not. I might therefore have to leave them as is & just try & do the sill area.. far from easy for me just this.

 

I feel like that every time I do something TBH but this forum is amazing and generally sets me right. You'll be fine. 

[PeterW]

Ok @zoothorn

 

You should be able to remove all the red arrowed bits, the glass will only fall out if you remove the blue arrowed one..!

 

 

[zoothorn]

Thanks newhome.. a frustrating day of nr zilch done when Id planned loads feels kinda 'things got better of me' & esp with the kitchen in a royal pickle becoming trying too// so a new day tmrw. I'm off work for now so the week to do w'no major rush.. but I was on a roll > then a brick wall.

[newhome]

9 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Thanks newhome.. a frustrating day of nr zilch done when Id planned loads feels kinda 'things got better of me' & esp with the kitchen in a royal pickle becoming trying too// so a new day tmrw. I'm off work for now so the week to do w'no major rush.. but I was on a roll > then a brick wall.

 

Yep, that's how it is when you are trying really hard to learn new skills that are alien to you. I try not to stress about it now. Tomorrow is a new day and when you next start a task you will be better prepared. No point in wading in and screwing it all up is there. Let the guys here be your guide. 

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, PeterW said:

 

 

Aha nice one Peter- useful gizmo to add arrows! most helpful again.

 

Do you think you can guarantee if I undo these, the frame won't become loose? I'd like to think its set in with either mortar &/ or frame fixing screws like my concrete jobs > then glass pane on. But the way this place was built so badly makes me very wary.

[newhome]

2 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Do you think you can guarantee if I undo these, the frame won't become loose?

 

@PeterW did you say your PI was up to date 

[zoothorn]

Hehe.. no its down to me alone if my window falls on out on my head after Ive been dicking about with it! will check back in tmrw.

 

Cheers chaps. zoot

[Onoff]

Take a look and see if there's any evidence of the frame being fixed with 'em.

 

This is one of my doors, got off a mate as a freebie and repurposed! Some spare frame fixings shown too:

 

 

As I said earlier though, with fixed windows they tend to fix the frame first then put the glazing in so you don't see the fixing. With openers you should see the fixing like above. Sometimes one visible at the top too though this can be a pig to drill because of the lintel.

 

 

Take the trim off of one side to start with. I almost can g'tee you'll see a scary gap. You can then see if there's any frame fixings in there. Fill the gap with low expansion foam. Keep any windows shut whilst it sets is another tip. That way it fills up the unwanted gap at the side rather than expanding and squeezing the opened window opening! You can protect the uPVC with some masking tape etc against foam getting on the frame.

 

In your case I wouldn't worry about a dpm like I did.

[Ferdinand]

12 hours ago, zoothorn said:

Bugger I thought PB was fixed on quick/quick with those felt nails.. gonna be a long job with screws & a big heavy cordless. I'm also wondering how the heck I'm going to hold the PB up to fix it on.. anyway I need to get xyz done before this prospect. I'm out of my depth again i can feel it.

 

Still chewing over this damn window area. With no experience I can't tell if I undo the trims whether the window will fall out/ if they are part of the structure of the frame or not. I might therefore have to leave them as is & just try & do the sill area.. far from easy for me just this.

 

Onoff do I need a dpm or not? as I said I found none before under the sill I took out, so if it aint broke..

 

Just think how much stronger your wrists will be, without any aspersions being cast.

 

Unlikely to apply, but sealed dg units are not very expensive, so in the worst case you just have to live with a draught for a day or two!

 

It is always good to do something the long way first time, so you understand better for the future.

 

You are doing great.

 

F

 

Edited July 30, 2018 by Ferdinand