Help with kitchen renovation/ 1st house.

[Onoff]

1 hour ago, newhome said:

@Onoff does the 1200 measurement start right in the corner of the room and then end in the middle of the batten @ 1200? Couldn't work out from reading whether it was centre batten to centre batten or you started at the far edge of the first batten so there was no gap. Me being thick clearly 

 

First board is 1200 wide, something like this:

 

[zoothorn]

I hope its as per the "1200" diagram below the 'kids bedroom pic' in the post above this ^.. cos that's the way Ive done it.. ie, centre of batten to centre of batten.

 

Can someone say if having got to the window.. I should be doing the same working back from the other corner of the wall, twds the window?

[newhome]

8 hours ago, Onoff said:

 

First board is 1200 wide, something like this:

 

 

Still being thick. So measurement starts at far left of the first batten (ie not in the middle) and ends in the middle of the 4th one? ?

[zoothorn]

(not according to onoff's diagram below the kids bedroom diagram a few posts back newhome.. from midpoint of 1st batten to midpoint of 4th).

 

I don't know how to proceed as I have more than 1200 each side. Assuming I have to put a vertical batten on RHS edge of window, as in my pic below, to facilitate the window reveal boarding.. & start the battens from the RH wall corner "back" twds the window @ 400.. do I cut it at this window batten midpoint (~1100), or add another one bang next to it to get me to 1200?

 

Then fill the middle vacant area above & below the window with 1 more short batten/ cut a small bit of PB to fit??

 

 

[newhome]

I've never done anything like this before so need @Onoff to hurry back and comment . 

[zoothorn]

Are you doing the same as me then-?

[newhome]

1 minute ago, zoothorn said:

Are you doing the same as me then-?

 

Ha ha no, just following in a virtual sense. I have enough to contend with trying to fix my loos at the mo!! 

 

 

[PeterW]

Doesn’t matter ..! You can go from the other corner if you want, make sure there is a batten down the window frame and then keep going. 

 

You'll end up with an odd sized space in the middle but as long as there is batten each side to screw the board to then it doesn’t matter. 

 

The gaps are mostly 350mm (so battens become 400mm in centres) but you can see some are narrower - never wider !

 

 

Edited July 27, 2018 by PeterW
Added pictures

[Onoff]

If jointing and taping go full board, full board and finish on an odd size, cut one in the corner ensuring that tapered edges are always on joints. Otherwise you'll be abutting a cut, square edge to a tapered edge. 

[zoothorn]

Ok thanks Peter.. I'm trying to figure out which is most economical re. PB taking into account the other wall to do you see. Without experience I'm bound to make a cockup on this or some other pg1 thing.

 

And what would you do with my black pine window sill too? it won't quite reach out to the PB with an annoying gap of 1/2".. plus another annoying 1" gap below it (to the horizontal batten the units will fix to- guess I can fill this with a sliver of C'tex or is that too fiddly/ stupid?).

[zoothorn]

3 minutes ago, Onoff said:

If jointing and taping go full board, full board and finish on an odd size, cut one in the corner ensuring that tapered edges are always on joints. Otherwise you'll be abutting a cut, square edge to a tapered edge. 

 

Hi onoff- So by full board-full board you mean continue L to R, as I'm doing.. rather than starting on the RH cnr back with an odd shaped PB bit in middle? so.. thereby meaning the only cut edge is in the RH corner (is that what you mean by "abbuting"? or can you explain what this word means- thx)

 

 

[zoothorn]

[Onoff]

Abutting - where two things meet / join together. In this case where the edge of one board meets another. 

 

If you go full board followed by another full board from L to R you might end up having to put another batten in. 

 

However this option might be better if intending to tape and fill, that is tape the joint, fill (and sand if required). Two tapered edges are easier to tape and fill than a tapered edge abutting a square edge. 

 

 

However...if you've wall units going below the window you would lose most of a dodgy tapered meets square edge joint. The only bit you would need to worry about is between the top of the worktop and window cill and then above the window. If tiling above the worktop then that's the joint there covered. 

 

If you can wriggle that black sill out you could tack a bit of timber on the back to bring it out over the new pb. Whilst the sill is out block up any gaps under the window.

 

Looking good btw!

[zoothorn]

Great help onoff (& Peter esp with that pic- v.useful too).. I'm back on board with your info, near all: a "tapered edge" is what tho.. a me-cut edge sanded/ de-burred to neaten up the rough edge?? (or do you buy/ ask for 'tapered edge PB').

 

The worktop will actually meet the sill (bar 1/4" gap, as its 27mm acacia not 44mm top like old one).. so its just the wall above window to smooth out a tapered-square edge joint, at this PB meeting point. So ok I go from RH wall 'back' then?

 

I'll try get the sill out then. Now, I notice the general way to PB the reveal is -not- including C'tex. Is that right, or, should I consider C'tex on reveals too? I'm thinking the cold will spew out around these 'weak' areas. Or is it just 'too big faff/ don't bother just PB is normal way here'.

 

Thanks, zoot

Edited July 28, 2018 by zoothorn

[PeterW]

14 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

I'll try get the sill out then. Now, I notice the general way to PB the reveal is -not- including C'tex. Is that right, or, should I consider C'tex on reveals too? I'm thinking the cold will spew out around these 'weak' areas. Or is it just 'too big faff/ don't bother just PB is normal way here'.

 

 

Take a photo with a tape measure to show how much of the uPVC frame is showing and we can give an indication of whether you will get insulation in there or not

[zoothorn]

Yanked the sill out- took some block away tho @ top mind you. I get a big draught from the cavity: is that normal? I find a 2" cavity between 2 blocks, with some 1" C'tex on the inner course. I thought it was 1cm in fact/ so the Insulation Co told me when they came out & probed in (last year- having this C'tex meant I couldn't get a grant they said).

 

 

[PeterW]

If that’s the same both sides you might get 25mm of celotex on the wall - glue it on with foam. 

[zoothorn]

What sort of foam Peter.. the usual expanding stuff or something designed as an adhesive?

 

Is this addition normal, or is the reveal usually not PIR done-?

[zoothorn]

I'm trying to do the horizontal batten on window top edge.. but my drill bit seems to be hitting a metal lintel-? something anyway so I'm 1" of D short. What do I do here? the screws just strip the hole out if I try putting one in.

[PeterW]

You are hitting the lintel so just put a batten right and the top and the window top one just stick on with no nails or similar with a couple of ordinary wood screws holding it to the vertical batten either side. if you are roaming the reveals - and make sure windows will open first, you can put a vertical up the inside of each side just screwed into the one you’ve already put in. The horizontal then rests on that anyway. 

 

With foam ideally you want to use low expansion but tbh any of them work. Thin bead of foam, let it expand and go off for 5 mins then squash the board onto the wall. It’s easier running foam onto the board laid flat....

[Onoff]

OK, so you've found where a lot of the draughts were probably coming around that window! I had exactly the same issue!

 

Not all expanding foams are made the same! You get the normal high expansion stuff, you get low expansion stuff and you get extra sticky type ones for "gluing" boards on.

 

Now this might seem an expense you don't want but if intending to do a lot of "foam" work then an expanding foam gun is an absolute MUST! Much much more controllable than the "hand held types. Photos are atypical, just grabbed off the web.

 

This is a hand held foam can. Comes with a plastic drinking straw type tube you slip on the end. Push the trigger down and foam comes out of the tube. Really though you want to be using it all in one go on a big job or the foam goes hard in the tube.

 

 

This is a typical foam GUN. Has a valve on the back whereby you can adjust the flow rate of foam or switch off altogether. You can leave it on the shelf like it for a few months and come back and its good to go again. Note you use it with the can above:

 

This is my gun from Screwfix:

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/no-nonsense-foam-applicator-gun/28483

 

This is the low expansion foam I used. See earlier photos in this thread where I stuck the blue membrane to the reveals with spray adhesive then used this foam between the back of the insulated pb and blue membrane to stick the board up. Note how I used temporary bracing in the reveal. Also good for gap filling where pir doesn't quite fit etc.

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/soudal-soudafoam-expanding-foam-gun-grade-750ml/5026d#product_additional_details_container

 

As Peter says use a grab adhesive like Pink Grip, No Nails, Stick Like Sh!t etc to put that batten up where you're hitting the lintel.  A couple of quid a tube like these:

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/i-cant-believe-it-s-not-nails-solvented-grab-adhesive-350ml/1120d

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/no-nonsense-11665502-grab-adhesive-solvent-free-white-310ml/87451

 

I used a chisel and took off the upvc window trim to allow the insulated pb to fit better (I'll find some pics shortly). Double glazing fitters are notorious for using this stuff for covering up horrendous gaps. Basically they can't be arsed / don't have the time to foam fill / wait for it to go off etc.

[zoothorn]

So far.. the veerticals done on 1 of the 2 walls. I need advice on getting a batten onto the top lip of the window.. Im sure its a lintel or s'thing I'm hitting but I can't drill enough depth.

 

 

[newhome]

11 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

I need advice on getting a batten onto the top lip of the window.. Im sure its a lintel or s'thing I'm hitting but I can't drill enough depth.

 

Here is what you need to do 

 

51 minutes ago, PeterW said:

the window top one just stick on with no nails or similar

 

31 minutes ago, Onoff said:

As Peter says use a grab adhesive like Pink Grip, No Nails, Stick Like Sh!t etc to put that batten up where you're hitting the lintel.

 

So grab some no nails and just stick it on. 

[newhome]

The rest is looking good though. You will get a real sense of achievement when it's all finished and properly insulated. Much more satisfying than wimping out and just doing a cosmetic job. 

 

[Onoff]

41 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

So far.. the veerticals done on 1 of the 2 walls. I need advice on getting a batten onto the top lip of the window.. Im sure its a lintel or s'thing I'm hitting but I can't drill enough depth.

 

 

 

Don't you read the replies?

 

As @PeterW said above: Don't drill and "screw" it, cut a piece of timber to fit between the verticals and stick it on with grab adhesive - cheap ones in my link. I have to say it looks like you're getting the hang of this lark! 

 

Back to "foam". I stuck on the eps (expanded polystyrene) direct to concrete, brick etc using the Soudal Low Expansion foam in my link above. As Peter said, put a few lines on and let go tacky for a few minutes then push whatever onto it. I held mine on with the bricks you can see, It was @JSHarris put me onto that method with the Soudal Low Expansion foam.

 

 

Back to the window reveal. This is deliberately picture heavy. It's how I did MINE. You'll have to glean from it what you can and adapt to suit:

 

My reveal. A 60mm cavity between two 4" breeze block walls:

 

 

See how I had the white plastic trim up the side:

 

 

I removed the trim from the sides and top. They stick it on with "Superglue". Usually a thin line. It came of with a chisel. See how the top trip was covering a bloody great gap. There were gaps up the sides too:

 

 

IF you take that upvc trim off you will have MORE draughts before it gets better. 

 

With the top trim all off revealing the HUGE gap across the top of the window:

 

 

Nearly an inch. I could see daylight through it:

 

 

The "cure":

 

Foams all round with Soudal Low Expansion gun foam. Let it go off and cut flush:

 

 

 

 

I then wedged a 2" bit of eps in first and foamed between it and the inner leaf:

 

 

 

Let dry, cut flush. I then put a smear of sand and cement on:

 

 

I then sprayed the reveal with spray adhesive and stuck some strips of dpm (damp proof membrane) on. Tbh you could use clean, cut down rubble bags etc:

 

 

Did the dpm top, bottom and sides.

 

I ran a line of Sikaflex EBT up the corner against the window and in lines on the dpm and pushed my 27mm pb onto it. The sill bit went on first, weighted down. The bricks are on the eps, the eps is only there to protect the insulated pb. Could have used Soudal Low Expansion Foam instead:

 

 

 

The sides support the top bit. 

 

Supporting the underside  of the top bit whilst it's going off. Note front edges of the insulated pb also screwed down to the batten around the window:

 

 

Done:

 

 

It's made a huge difference to draughts around the window.