Flushing my ensuite loo makes the bath drain gurgle..

[Bitpipe]

They're on the same waste stack but while in the same room, the bath waste takes an indirect path to the stack (due to steels in the floor).

 

I suspect the AAV right next to the WC is the issue but before I start dismantling I want to check. Have not lifted any IC covers outside yet either - may do that first as it's a bit easier...  

[bassanclan]

Can you sketch it?

Is there an aav on the bath trap?

[Onoff]

Fit an anti siphon trap to the bath?

[Nickfromwales]

@Bitpipe has some rather interesting baths iirc. 

BFO, heavy, free standers? 

Whar traps did you go with in the end ?

[Bitpipe]

Just now, Nickfromwales said:

@Bitpipe has some rather interesting baths iirc. 

BFO, heavy, free standers? 

Whar traps did you go with in the end ?

 

Proper ones, had to cut through the newly tiled and tanked floor to create the depth. Was worried that the electric UFH would take a hit but all was well.

 

The baths are from the Lusso Stone Milano range - very nice but no room underneath for a proper trap (they supply a flexi pipe that's worse than useless.

 

There's an AAV on the top of the stack just behind the WC in the next room - boxed in obv but accessible if needs be. 

[Nickfromwales]

Is the bath on its own run all the way to the stack, and does the wash basin tee into it or go straight to the stack on a completely separate boss ?

[Bitpipe]

On 08/05/2018 at 20:12, Nickfromwales said:

Is the bath on its own run all the way to the stack, and does the wash basin tee into it or go straight to the stack on a completely separate boss ?

 

I think so, however the WC stack goes down one side of the house and the bath & sink flow into another vertical stack at floor level, takes up the downstirs WC and then meets the upstairs stack just before exiting the house. 

 

Anyhoo, I realised that we'd not used the bath for a while and with the warm spell suspected that some water in the trap may have evaporated, running the bath for a minute resolved the issue for now but still wondering if the AAV needs a look at.

[Nickfromwales]

2 hours ago, Bitpipe said:

but still wondering if the AAV needs a look at.

Why?

[Bitpipe]

20 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Why?

Occasionally, If I flush (especially downstairs) the water level in the pan remains high for a few moments before descending  - this is even when there is only liquid in the pan.

[Nickfromwales]

What's the invert from the affected WCs to the next horizontal run in the downstream soil pipe? Eg how far before the plop must drop, and how far does it drop? 

1200mm or less invert and you shouldn't even need an AAV. If you have a horizontal run before dropping a full floor height then that will create a sufficient air break to ensure the flush is unaffected. Water not going down quickly sounds more to do with the local connection eg pan connector and the immediate pipework thatvit discharges into rather than air admittance. 

Air admittance or lack of is usually spotted by the water being almost completely sucked out of the throat of the pan after flushing, even to the point it gurgles to get the air break from the pan. 

[Bitpipe]

So for sh!ts and giggles I decided to pop a few of the new IC covers on the drive and patio - they are all Clarke Drain recessed covers so infilled with pavers / resin gravel etc.

 

Lets just say there was not much giggling....

 

There was a partial blockage on the run from the final IC on my property to the main sewer in the road - this is the only legacy bit of drainage from the old house so I suspect it has some debris in it from the build that has snagged something (we have a strict no wet wipes down the loo policy but I suspect thats what it was). Everything was a bit backed up from there.

 

Quick dash to Screwy to get a 9m set of rods (£20, cheaper than hiring), some disposable gloves and the hose and a pleasant summer evening was had by all.

 

Now all clear, although I may need to get another set of rods as I suspect there is still some debris in the runs from driveway works etc and as the IC spacing is 10m they don't go the full distance.

 

We have a couple of 45cm IC chambers right next to the house (mostly for kitchen / utility but also the run from utility) and I can't get the rods into those but can reach from the 60cm at the other end. 

 

Very impressed with the quality of the clarke drain covers, they seal very tight but pop off easily with the recessed handle system.

 

I wish I'd been a bit more mindful of where the various ICs went - most are in the drive or rear patio (and with the recessed and infilled clark covers are nearly invisible) but a few straddle path and lawn so are proving more problematic to cover. If you're at the stage of planning these - I'd recommend 8m runs between ICs if possible as a standard rod set is 9m.

 

Anyway, another mini adventure complete !

[Bitpipe]

On 11/05/2018 at 17:03, Nickfromwales said:

What's the invert from the affected WCs to the next horizontal run in the downstream soil pipe? Eg how far before the plop must drop, and how far does it drop? 

1200mm or less invert and you shouldn't even need an AAV. If you have a horizontal run before dropping a full floor height then that will create a sufficient air break to ensure the flush is unaffected. Water not going down quickly sounds more to do with the local connection eg pan connector and the immediate pipework thatvit discharges into rather than air admittance. 

Air admittance or lack of is usually spotted by the water being almost completely sucked out of the throat of the pan after flushing, even to the point it gurgles to get the air break from the pan. 

 

As above, AAC not the issue but there is about 60cm of horizontal between the ensuite wall hanging pan and the vertical stack on the other side of the wall before it drops, dog leg style, to the ground level horizontal run. 

 

Culprit was obv the 45cm and fairly shallow initial IC that this connects into being backed up by the partial blockage further downstream - it had less impact the deeper the invert levels became but would have been providing some resistance right next to the house.

 

Very glad those Clarke drain covers are tight fitting and are screwed into the base otherwise I suspect it would have leaked over the rear patio (prob would have noticed a bit quicker though)!

[Nickfromwales]

It sounded like resistance hence my comment about the immediate pipework from the WC. 

Good that you found that sooner than later   

[Bitpipe]

4 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

It sounded like resistance hence my comment about the immediate pipework from the WC. 

Good that you found that sooner than later   

Resistance is futile.

 

Although the household is now on a liquids only diet for a few weeks. 

[PeterW]

Karcher do a drain jet for their pressure washers and I’ve used it to similar effect and it’s very good. 

 

The benefit is that it will go through tight bends and at a push if you warm the tube first you can get it around a U bend .... 

[Bitpipe]

9 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Karcher do a drain jet for their pressure washers and I’ve used it to similar effect and it’s very good. 

 

The benefit is that it will go through tight bends and at a push if you warm the tube first you can get it around a U bend .... 

 

Good call Peter - I was wondering how my pressure washer could be brought into service!

 

Branded 15m hose is about £60 from espares and there are non OEM equivalents for £45 ish.

 

[PeterW]

Don't think I even paid that !

 

Let me check...

[Bitpipe]

On 15/05/2018 at 13:24, PeterW said:

Don't think I even paid that !

 

Let me check...

 

Been wanting to give my drains a full flush out and the rods only go 10M.

 

Found this on fleabay.

 

Looks better than the official Karcher one as a) its longer (25m vs 15m) b) it has a forward facing jet as well as the 3 rear facing ones c) much cheaper (£32 vs £70 odd)

 

Question is whether it's any good!

 

I have a K4 pressure washer, so not huge but does the job.

[Adsibob]

On 08/05/2018 at 17:27, Bitpipe said:

The baths are from the Lusso Stone Milano range - very nice but no room underneath for a proper trap (they supply a flexi pipe that's worse than useless.

@Bitpipe I’m thinking of getting a stone resin bath from Lusso as well as a couple of basins and showers, maybe even a toilet. Are you happy with the quality a couple of years on? Did you go for Matt or gloss finish? I like the Matt, but some reviewers say it’s hard to clean.