Patio wall lights

[daiking]

5 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

Some crossed wires if you'll excuse the pun. The 3-core and earth is only needed between the 2-way switches. In your case thru the wall from the new light switch inside to the new light switch outside. Tbh that can be ordinary flat 3-core and earth shoved in a bit of pvc duct.

 

From the power take off box to the first light and then to the next etc 3-core swa would have been fine.

 

I don’t know exactly what I want, 2 way external switches, who knows? 

[daiking]

Is 3 core 1.5mm SWA going to be any easier to work with that 4 core? O.D. is similar 11 & 12mm and still bend rad of 8 x O.D.

 

Looking at how the cable goes in the light the cable needs to go in and out at an angle not from behind, perpendicular to the light. Also I'm not sure that the cable will go into those brass inserts... These cables are going to need to be exact lengths as there's no scope for curling the cable up in the hole like T&E.

 

I won't be connecting any wires to anything but I will be the one going round pulling the cable into position and drilling through the back of the wall to leave the cable in the correct location before it is all back filled.

Edited March 29, 2018 by daiking

[Nickfromwales]

22 minutes ago, daiking said:

Is 3 core 1.5mm SWA going to be any easier to work with that 4 core? O.D. is similar 11 & 12mm and still bend rad of 8 x O.D.

 

It would be easier tbh, but not by much.

Do you have room to fit conduit boxes? One of these with the glands made off however easiest, and the one remaining outlet gets a regular cable entry gland and a short piece of 0.75mm2 silicone or rubber flex ( HO5 or HO7 is cheap enough and bombproof ) to go into each light. TBH I doubt if you'll get the two SWA's into each of those lights, terminated and back out again reliably, whilst wrestling them in and out of the pockets youve left. 

[daiking]

8 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

 

It would be easier tbh, but not by much.

Do you have room to fit conduit boxes? One of these with the glands made off however easiest, and the one remaining outlet gets a regular cable entry gland and a short piece of 0.75mm2 silicone or rubber flex ( HO5 or HO7 is cheap enough and bombproof ) to go into each light. TBH I doubt if you'll get the two SWA's into each of those lights, terminated and back out again reliably, whilst wrestling them in and out of the pockets youve left. 

 

Its going to be a block and (eng) brick solid wall. Brick left out for the light, then I would be going round to drill the block for the cable run. I doubt there is enough room in the brick space for the light and a JB but would have to measure it at home later.

 

Plenty of room on the back of the blockwork but I don't have an electrician let alone one planned to come before the wall is back filled to terminate the swa into jbs and put a flexible cable into the brick hole.

Edited March 29, 2018 by daiking

[Onoff]

Not much in it as in 3 or 4 core. You want CW 20S swa glands probably instead of those brass inserts. If you unscrew one does it say M20 on the edge? A rule will tell you.

 

You might need to chamfer the back of the bricks little. If you know where the lights are going get the brickie to do it as he goes along. It'll take him seconds.

 

Rather than exact lengths just have a bit of sag between fittings. Once the first is made off it should all become apparent.

 

Going belt and braces and keeping the armoured continuous you would also need to link the banjos.

 

I imagine you'll be using 3 of the 4 cores for L, N & E. Don't forget to sleeve the core chosen for the earth with grn/yellow sleeve. Is it black,  brown, blue & grey? Go brown L, blue N and make the grey or black the cpc but sleeve as said.

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

16 minutes ago, daiking said:

would have to measure it at home later.

 

Would make life a LOT easier if you can. Could you have the JBs on the back of the walls rear facing? Or are they going to end up covered?

[Onoff]

Proper Pratley boxes with mf (maintenance free) connections are the proper way if burying and wanting to maintain the IP rating and NOT have future issues with water ingress.

[daiking]

37 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

 

Would make life a LOT easier if you can. Could you have the JBs on the back of the walls rear facing? Or are they going to end up covered?

 

The back of the wall will be infill and covered by a patio. No future access from behind. Front access from brick shaped hole only.

[daiking]

And this is why people bodge up some surface mounted lights and cabling and hope for the best.

[daiking]

1 hour ago, Onoff said:

Proper Pratley boxes with mf (maintenance free) connections are the proper way if burying and wanting to maintain the IP rating and NOT have future issues with water ingress.

 

Pratley jinction boxes cost more than the lights  I might just send everything back.

 

6 lights and cables and jbs £250

 

Sparky to wire them up £250

 

Total £500

 

So, @Moira Niedzwiecka tell me more about your solar lights...

 

 

[Onoff]

26 minutes ago, daiking said:

And this is why people bodge up some surface mounted lights and cabling and hope for the best.

 

 

Now the biting makes sense!

 

For some reason I though the brick lights were going on a wall down the garden. This is that bit you were on about ages ago where the ground has to come up by a metre or something? You talked about paving over the top rather than decking I think. Seeing the trench and it slowly dawned on me. 

 

You might be better then using "Hi-tuf" type stuff:

 

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/NY1dot5slash3.html

 

Easier to make off and a bit more flexible. Tbh if you haven't bought the swa glands yet etc. The glands on the link aren't IP rated enough really.

 

These are IP68 with an umcompressed seal ID of 13mm and the cable above is nom 12.7mm dia. 

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/tower-male-comp-gland-black-20mm-pack-of-2/80851

 

 

 

 

[daiking]

16 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

 

Now the biting makes sense!

 

For some reason I though the brick lights were going on a wall down the garden. This is that bit you were on about ages ago where the ground has to come up by a metre or something? You talked about paving over the top rather than decking I think. Seeing the trench and it slowly dawned on me. 

 

You might be better then using "Hi-tuf" type stuff:

 

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/NY1dot5slash3.html

 

Easier to make off and a bit more flexible. Tbh if you haven't bought the swa glands yet etc. The glands on the link aren't IP rated enough really.

 

These are IP68 with an umcompressed seal ID of 13mm and the cable above is nom 12.7mm dia. 

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/tower-male-comp-gland-black-20mm-pack-of-2/80851

 

 

 

 

Who needs lights? No accessories purchased as I’m not working up. I was making an educated guess that hardware would cost £250.

 

as it stands, the cheapest solution would be some sort of star distribution with a single long cable to each light from a central above ground location near the exisitng power socket. As even SWA cable is cheaper than fittings. One BFO 6 into 1 cable, wall mounted JB.

[Moira Niedzwiecka]

@daiking I have just checked on Costco's website & they are not listed.

They may only be available in store.

I am at work at the moment.

I will photo them when I get home.

We also bought the Paradise stainless steel coach lights from Costco for either side of the front door.

Very nice and about £30 for two.

 

 

[daiking]

1 hour ago, Moira Niedzwiecka said:

@daiking I have just checked on Costco's website & they are not listed.

They may only be available in store.

I am at work at the moment.

I will photo them when I get home.

We also bought the Paradise stainless steel coach lights from Costco for either side of the front door.

Very nice and about £30 for two.

 

 

 

Thanks

[Moira Niedzwiecka]

@daiking Pics of solar lights. They come with a 1x AA rechargable battery for each as a back up.

Stainless steel & give a good light.

 

[daiking]

Better photos of my lights. The face is a few mm smaller all round than a brick. The depth is only 60mm or so, not 100mm. The female thread the brass fitting goes into has some sort of thin/flexible membrane across it, presumably to slit for the cable and provide a ‘seal’ after. Can’t see there’s any way the swa is going to terminate that small. Despite the website listing as ip68 these are only ip65 on the paperwork. Should be ok in this use though. 

 

I’m now wondering if the only way to do this is lay 20mm flex duct now, complete the patio and then try to pull that more flexible outdoor cable through the duct after there is no longer any more potential to damage the cable? What do you think?

 

[Onoff]

Doesn't the bit with the brass inserts screw onto the 60mm deep front section?

 

Won't that put the brass inserts beyond or very near beyond the back of the brick?

 

What is the diameter of the threaded part of the brass insert?

 

 

[daiking]

8 minutes ago, Onoff said:

Doesn't the bit with the brass inserts screw onto the 60mm deep front section?

 

Won't that put the brass inserts beyond or very near beyond the back of the brick?

 

What is the diameter of the threaded part of the brass insert?

 

 

No that bit with the details and sticker goes inside the bigger part. Just showing them separate as the smaller part is the interesting bit. Not sure on the thread. I’m away now till Sunday 

[Onoff]

20 minutes ago, daiking said:

No that bit with the details and sticker goes inside the bigger part. Just showing them separate as the smaller part is the interesting bit. Not sure on the thread. I’m away now till Sunday 

 

Got it. You then cut the D shaped bits out both sides to allow cable access. 

[daiking]

3 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

Got it. You then cut the D shaped bits out both sides to allow cable access. 

 

Yes

[Onoff]

You don't have to use those brass inserts. You could blank off and redrill for glands on those angled faces and come in from the rear. 

 

Or either side of the brick light position lay a brick cut to half it's depth.

[Nickfromwales]

Just a thought. 

Give the lights to the sparky and say "let me know when your done so I can pay you"

?

[daiking]

9 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

Just a thought. 

Give the lights to the sparky and say "let me know when your done so I can pay you"

?

 

I’m not giving a blank cheque to someone, neither am I taking @Onoff‘s lead in fettling the lights losing me what little comeback I have with them.

 

I would just like to do the bit that anyone can do so I only have to pay for the bits that need doing properly. Is that too much to ask?

[Nickfromwales]

On 30/03/2018 at 21:16, daiking said:

 

I’m not giving a blank cheque to someone, neither am I taking @Onoff‘s lead in fettling the lights losing me what little comeback I have with them.

 

I would just like to do the bit that anyone can do so I only have to pay for the bits that need doing properly. Is that too much to ask?

Asking a spark to wire 3 lights isn't quite a blank cheque, let's be honest. 

If they take a day to do the outside work then your looking at their day rate. If they take a day just to fit the 3 lights then start asking questions. 

Have you asked for a quote for the work yet ?

[daiking]

16 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

Asking a spark to wire 3 lights isn't quite a blank cheque, let's be honest. 

If they take a day to do the outside work then your looking at their day rate. If they take a day just to fit the 3 lights then start asking questions. 

Have you asked for a quote for the work yet ?

 

You know that’s not how it works for muggles?

 

Every job for us costs at least a days work plus materials. And day rates for us are 33-50% higher than you think.