Patio wall lights

[Onoff]

6 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

Damn he's good lol. 

The only thing I'd add is that there may be a conflict of supplies in the internal switch if that's got the existing lighting feed in it, and then you take the outside live into it too. @Onoff / @ProDave, any issue with the two feeds sharing the same switch plate ? If not, then if the existing internal switch is a single or double, it can be bumped up to a double or triple ( 2 gang or 3 gang ) rather than make a new cut out for an additional switch to add the extra gang. Getting from the blue square to the green square can be done by fishing the cable down the cavity. Push some slack back on the cable, into the cavity, to get a drip loop. 

 

Bugger, I didn't read that the internal switch was existing! (The old acetone in the eyes + 2 beers excuse ).

 

Mixing the supplies from two circuits on the same plate isn't a very good idea imo. Good chance somebody might isolate the "lighting" circuit but there's still power there from the "power" circuit still on. A competent person should test for dead as well but would Joe Public? Earth fault on the lights could affect the power circuit etc.

 

Saying that, unless a light switch on a power circuit is labelled as to where it's fed from then same confusion / risk.

 

Add a second, dedicated switch, stick a label on it and hide behind the curtain!

 

@ProDave will be along in a minute to sort this out...

 

Hang on... if you can get into the cavity then couldn't you remove that wall light on the left and drop a 1.5mm t&e down to the blue junction box. Take your swa to the patio lights from there?

 

I need coffee and the gout is playing up! Might be the start of rheumatism in the knees  thinking about it...

[daiking]

8 hours ago, Onoff said:

Like this?

 

 

Thta sort of thing, yes. I wouldn’t expect someone to mix circuits on the same face plate so another switch inside is expected. I don’t expect someone to be able to fish a cable down the cavity either. I’d rather have the plaster butchered* than wreck the insulation.

 

(*which will happen anyway, it’s how they work, it’s like a Keynesian make work scheme for other trades, the fallacy of the clumsy tradesman?)

[Nickfromwales]

Ok. You know what your doing now ???

[daiking]

 

4 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

Ok. You know what your doing now ???

 

I’ve ordered 15m of 4core 1.5mm swa and 4 lights. I have some 20mm single wall flexible conduit from before so I’ve put a drawstring though that too. Hoping this covers me for upfront either way.

 

I’ll ask for enough ‘tail’ at each end to terminate the SWA.

Edited March 27, 2018 by daiking

[Onoff]

Stick a tag of some sort inside that new internal switch to say that it's on the power circuit. That way any one working on it will hopefully pick up on it when it comes to safe isolation. How high is your existing inside light switch? Guess you'll want the new switch level.

 

I think the  Part M height of 1200mm is great personally. Kids can reach without standing on a stool etc. Handy for if in a wheelchair obviously.

 

Do I recall you were wanting inside and outside floor heights pretty much level?

Edited March 27, 2018 by Onoff

[daiking]

4 hours ago, Onoff said:

Stick a tag of some sort inside that new internal switch to say that it's on the power circuit. That way any one working on it will hopefully pick up on it when it comes to safe isolation. How high is your existing inside light switch? Guess you'll want the new switch level.

 

I think the  Part M height of 1200mm is great personally. Kids can reach without standing on a stool etc. Handy for if I'm a wheelchair obviously.

 

Do I recall you were wanting inside and outside floor heights pretty much level?

 

Who knows? Not too bothered about heights etc, any mods will be to suit existing fittings. No BI so BRs aren't a problem. Will probably have changed my mind by the time I get an electrician. Before I get one of them I need a plumber for a couple of days to sort out my never put in service UFH.

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, daiking said:

 

Who knows? Not too bothered about heights etc, any mods will be to suit existing fittings. No BI so BRs aren't a problem. Will probably have changed my mind by the time I get an electrician. Before I get one of them I need a plumber for a couple of days to sort out my never put in service UFH.

What needs doing to the ufh to get it working?

[daiking]

5 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

What needs doing to the ufh to get it working?

 

Everything apart from putting the pipes in the slab. I’ll need to start a blog on it after the garden is done in the next month and then save up again to afford a plumber.

 

i have realised that the pipes are still full of water  I say water it’s probably sludge by now, 3 years later.

[Nickfromwales]

8 minutes ago, daiking said:

 

Everything apart from putting the pipes in the slab. I’ll need to start a blog on it after the garden is done in the next month and then save up again to afford a plumber.

 

i have realised that the pipes are still full of water  I say water it’s probably sludge by now, 3 years later.

Do you have the manifold there?

[daiking]

8 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Do you have the manifold there?

I have all the gear.. and no idea!

 

yes. Manifold, controller, pump etc.

Edited March 27, 2018 by daiking

[Nickfromwales]

7 minutes ago, daiking said:

I have all the gear.. and no idea!

 

yes. Manifold, controller, pump etc.

A one day job MAX. 

[daiking]

2 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

A one day job MAX. 

 

When are you coming? 

 

lol, give it 2 days to sort out what it pipes into - the hot and cold return on the conventional Rads central heating and the electrics - which plumbers I’ve had won’t touch.

Edited March 27, 2018 by daiking

[Nickfromwales]

1 minute ago, daiking said:

 

When are you coming? 

 

lol, give it 2 days to sort out what it pipes into - the hot and cold return on the conventional Rads central heating.

Don't you have 2 x 2-port valves already installed and a dedicated pair of flow and return pipes run to the manifold location ?

[daiking]

 

7 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Don't you have 2 x 2-port valves already installed and a dedicated pair of flow and return pipes run to the manifold location ?

 

No Valves and no dedicated flow/return pipes, just a short capped off branch for both. At least it’s all in the same room.

[Nickfromwales]

Pic from under the boiler plz. 

Do you intend to just run rads and UFH the same time always ?

 

You'd be better off doing that TBH with a combi and no buffer. . 

[daiking]

Just now, Nickfromwales said:

You'd be better off doing that TBH with a combi and no buffer. . 

 

Pics not going to happen soon ? There’s appliances in front and storage units.

 

I don't know how best to run it. Rads will go off after this last cold spell till October time. Unless I tweak the programme to run the rads for towels for a short time every day and turn the stats on each rad off.

 

we have 2 rads in the ufh space which are a little underpowered and noticeable in the very cold snap we had but fine 95% of the time. Don’t think I need much out of the UFH to top it up.

[Nickfromwales]

Ok, so you have rads and ufh servicing the same space?

[daiking]

3 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Ok, so you have rads and ufh servicing the same space?

 

Yes (wisely)

[Nickfromwales]

Dont shout, but have you considered just beefing the rads up? Connecting up the UFH is going to cost a bit and be quite disruptive. With no dedicated flow and return from the boiler to the UFH manifold location your options for control are also very limited. May be time to cut and run with just the few ££ of UFH pipe as the loss. Thoughts?

[Nickfromwales]

A pic of the manifold please. Or a link to the exact one you have so I can look at options vs type etc

[daiking]

Back on topic, not sure that 4 core 1.5mm swa will fit that 20mm flex ducting. Lights from @Onoff rs elec supplies link. Not sure if safe or not but can’t burn a patio down.

 

got a couple of cardboard tubes in lieu of ducting if it doesn’t arrive in time. Builder will be thinking, wtf?

 

Edited March 27, 2018 by daiking

[Onoff]

Cable should fit...just. Ducting is 14/15mm 'ish inside. Might need some lube. 

 

I forget, did you already have the 4-core 1.5? 

 

Don't forget though nice to put it in ducting, SWA can go straight in the ground. 

 

Lights look alright, glanded in/out and rubber seal. 

[Onoff]

Hang on, you said in an earlier post you already had the 20mm ducting....no?

 

And why 4-core swa? That was suggested if two way switching and you needed to run a bit of swa between internal and external light switches.

 

 

[daiking]

6 hours ago, Onoff said:

Hang on, you said in an earlier post you already had the 20mm ducting....no?

 

And why 4-core swa? That was suggested if two way switching and you needed to run a bit of swa between internal and external light switches.

 

 

 

Yes had ducting anyway - had to buy 50m back in the day to use 10-15m of it with UFH pipes.

 

for the 25p/m difference I bought 15m of 4core  from rs as well just in case I go with 2 way switching.

[Onoff]

4 hours ago, daiking said:

 

Yes had ducting anyway - had to buy 50m back in the day to use 10-15m of it with UFH pipes.

 

for the 25p/m difference I bought 15m of 4core  from rs as well just in case I go with 2 way switching.

 

Some crossed wires if you'll excuse the pun. The 3-core and earth is only needed between the 2-way switches. In your case thru the wall from the new light switch inside to the new light switch outside. Tbh that can be ordinary flat 3-core and earth shoved in a bit of pvc duct.

 

From the power take off box to the first light and then to the next etc 3-core swa would have been fine.