ojbruce Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Hi, I hope someone can help please. Our neighbours are looking to build a double storey side extension right up to the boundary with our back garden. They've not applied for planning permission or building regs, nor have we come to any party wall agreement. My question, though, is do they actually need any of these, or can they do what they want under permitted development. I've spent days googling it and still no definite answer. I've attached the Google image of their house to show the layout. Any help really greatly appreciated. Thanks Oliver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Building regs are a must for anyone and as far as I understand it you need planning permission if close to a boundary anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 (edited) PErmitted development is 3m max eaves height within 2m of a boundary, and then you need to watch for gutter overhang etc. See this link. So yes they would need planning. I think they will also have the right to insert reinforced foundations under your garden. You need to understand that PP does not give them the general right to encroach on your property without your permission eg you can charge them rent for placing scaffolding in your garden. And as it is so far down your garden I think they will get planning permission. One area you need to work out is who owns the hedge and where the boundary is and make sure it is clear, though it looks like their hedge on their land. NOt sure about Party Wall Agreements. But no Council will enforce anything until they have actually DONE something unlawful, and they may just give retrospective permission, and most of the enforcement will be down to you protecting your civil rights if it comes to that. Things to do. 1 Talk to your Council Planners and work out exactly where you stand, or consult the Planning Advice service from the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors, RICS. See their website ... they will only give general law and policy advice not specific cases. 2 - Talk to your neighbours and explain the limitations with evidence. Always the practical place to start. Don't make any rash black and white statements. 3 - I would consider building something on your side up to the boundary if you want to discourage them from building to the boundary, such as a garage, workshop or shed. Or a 4ft deep carp pond all along that side up to the boundary would make their attempted insertion of foundations more interesting. 4 - In your position I would be looking at outline pp for a small house or bungalow on your land at the bottom if feasible and then selling off the plot. Ferdinand Edited February 17, 2018 by Ferdinand 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jml Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 (edited) https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/17/extensions Above link shows the extensions not requiring planning, assuming you are in England, which would suggest your neighbours would require planning. Edited February 17, 2018 by Jml Overlap with above post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Jml said: https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/17/extensions Above link shows the extensions not requiring planning, assuming you are in England, which would suggest your neighbours would require planning. @Jml It is two storey in the op, and as I read it bullet point 9 or 10 on your link says max 3m eaves height within 2m of boundary. Your England note is a good point. F Edited February 17, 2018 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 In Scotland I think PD is eaves height max 3 metres within 1 metre of the boundary. So a 2 storey extension would NOT be PD What are the concerns the OP has about this extension? As I see it the real issues are ensuring there is no eaves overhang, dealing with foundations that may or may not go under his land, dealing with fencing and boundary marking after the build, access during the build etc. All of which will be dealt with by a party wall surveyor. The only planning issue is I would not want a window from that extension looking onto my garden, and the planning process would be the time to object to that if they propose one. At least with it not being permitted development you will have the planning process to ensure it does not cause you issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ojbruce Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 Thanks guys, yes, it's in England. We believed pp would be needed, but they seem to be cracking on regardless. The hedge has already gone! In response to your fourth point Ferdinand, which is a good one, we tried that, albeit a few years back, and got knocked back! We have spoken to them and they've let us know about it, to be fair, but we want the right process followed so appreciate all the responses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ojbruce Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 Yes ProDave, they are our concerns. We wouldn't necessarily object, just want our position protected and expected a party wall surveyor to be appointed, alas not to date.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jml Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 24 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: @Jml It is two storey in the op, and as I read it bullet point 9 or 10 on your link says max 3m eaves height within 2m of boundary F Agreed, as you said in your first post. ? Also PD only single storey side extensions allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jml Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 16 minutes ago, ojbruce said: Yes ProDave, they are our concerns. We wouldn't necessarily object, just want our position protected and expected a party wall surveyor to be appointed, alas not to date.... Not convinced, that they it will fall under party wall act as not near foundations of your house and will not be a party wall as such. Someone in the know will probably be able to advise further. Some stuff in link below: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/party-wall-etc-act-1996-guidance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 42 minutes ago, Jml said: Not convinced, that they it will fall under party wall act as not near foundations of your house and will not be a party wall as such. Someone in the know will probably be able to advise further. Some stuff in link below: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/party-wall-etc-act-1996-guidance I agree. We had to build a very large retaining wall right on the garden boundary with our neighbour, which included going under their land with the foundations. No party wall agreement was required, as we were a long way from their house or any other structure. We did have to ensure that we restored the strip of their land that we'd dug out to it's original condition, but other than that there was no form of legal agreement required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 One possible thing is your right to light (not a view). If their extension shades any of your windows, and judging by the little compass in the top of your screen you appear to be North of them so perhaps in the evening, sun low, the shadow will fall so much earlier, then you may well have a recourse to right to light legislation. The council do not have to take this into account when granting planning permission but you can go after them for a chunk of money to the value of the loss of amenity and it can be substantial or even require them to take it down. Bit more info here. Depending on your relationship with your neighbours you could also do some work in the bottom your garden, EG put your own fence up fractionally inside your boundary, erect a shed a right up against the boundary or some such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Surely if they have started work without first gaining PP,. you should be notifying the council of your concerns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 1 hour ago, ProDave said: Surely if they have started work without first gaining PP,. you should be notifying the council of your concerns? TBH, that was my thought, too, but it's a bit of a double edged sword. AFAIK, the point of contact with the council planning department will probably be the enforcement officer, and that might elevate things to a level that increases any friction. Ideally you want the council to just "become aware" of what's going on without getting personally involved, if only because neighbour issues can seem to get unpleasant fairly quickly, and have to be declared if you ever sell the house. Perhaps the best course of action is for someone other than yourself to report the work to the planners, in a way that doesn't give away your knowledge of your neighbours plans. It seems a bit devious, but a very non-specific report of building activity that doesn't seem to be authorised, that doesn't mention anything about the size of shape of what is planned to be built, might get your neighbour on the right track. From what you've said, it seems as if the neighbour may be acting out of ignorance of the need for planning and building regs approval. As above, I'm pretty sure they would get planning permission, and by doing it properly they would save themselves a lot of pain and grief later, especially if it went unreported and they decided to sell the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Perhaps a planning guidance leaflet dropped through the letterbox with some parts highlighted? A bit like when I got wind of my neighbour intending to culvert the entire length of the burn through his garden. I made sure he got a copy of the SEPA guidance note, which basically said oh no you can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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