National Grid Installation. Is this work acceptable?

[jimseng]

I had my meter box connected to the pole last week and when I came home I thought the work was not a standard I expect. I have contacted them but wondered what others thought.

I am concerned that the underground ducting will fill with water and remain filled as it has nowhere to drain.

[Bonner]

The ducting is there for physical protection, not to keep it dry. I would be more concerned about the gaps where the cable can be impacted by external force. It should be armoured cable so belt and braces but it’s poor installation.

[mjc55]

I would not be happy with that, why is it not fastened to the back board?

[ProDave]

That meter on a sloping board is a standard detail for front cable entry into a flush meter box.

 

The rest of it is 💩

 

There is a minimum distance for cables to be buried.  An inch or 2 under a bit of gravel if you are lucky is not one of them.  What did the contract say, did it say they would dig the trench from the pole?  Or were you supposed to dig that?  If so did you?

[garrymartin]

16 minutes ago, mjc55 said:

I would not be happy with that, why is it not fastened to the back board?

It is - there is at least one screw visible. If you mean why is it not flat on the backboard, that is how they are installed nowadays. The bottom third of the cabinet is for the provider, and because of the way the cable comes in, you can't then fix flat on the back. If you look, you can see that the plastic back is angled to allow this.

[mjc55]

ahh! didn't look at it properly!

 

Had our temporary connection fitted last year and they didn't seem to have any problem fixing it to the board,

[ProDave]

31 minutes ago, mjc55 said:

ahh! didn't look at it properly!

 

Had our temporary connection fitted last year and they didn't seem to have any problem fixing it to the board,

Because that is a surface mount meter box not  a flush one, and they have access to get the cable up into the back of the box.

 

A flush meter box, you can only do that , if the hockey stick is built into the wall cavity as the wall is built and they have access to it's lower end, even then I don't thiink they like doing it that way any more.

[ToughButterCup]

Have you paid them yet ? Or did you have to pay in advance?

If so, complain. 

 

If not, don't (pay). That'll draw attention.

 

Is cable tape laid? Is the cable laid at the require depth (900mm ? )

[ProDave]

From a technical point of view, I would be concerned that phase 1 has a much lower loop impedance than the other two.  I would expect them to be all nearly the same.  If having just a single phase supply that is the one I would choose. Not that you have a choice.

[garrymartin]

9 minutes ago, ProDave said:

From a technical point of view, I would be concerned that phase 1 has a much lower loop impedance than the other two.  I would expect them to be all nearly the same.  If having just a single phase supply that is the one I would choose. Not that you have a choice.

I think it's just a badly written 2 - looks to be 0.23Ω to me?

[Indy]

As ProDave pointed out, the way ours was installed was also at an angle 

 

 

This is the finished article after the electrician completed the connection to the consumer unit inside the house 

 

 

What I find the most bizarre is that we're supposed to leave that box accessible and not behind any gates. Anyone could potentially walk up with a 50p key to open the box and cut power to the whole house by tripping the breaker? I asked repeatedly why the breaker would not be inside - next to the CU but it's the requirement as per BC and UKPN as well?!

[-rick-]

4 minutes ago, Indy said:

What I find the most bizarre is that we're supposed to leave that box accessible and not behind any gates. Anyone could potentially walk up with a 50p key to open the box and cut power to the whole house by tripping the breaker? I asked repeatedly why the breaker would not be inside - next to the CU but it's the requirement as per BC and UKPN as well?!

 

Yes they could but what's the chances of that? Being able to shut off the supply to the consumer unit is a great advantage. Saves an electrician having to call out the DNO (and the charges) if they need to do something big to the consumer unit.

[Indy]

42 minutes ago, -rick- said:

 

Yes they could but what's the chances of that? Being able to shut off the supply to the consumer unit is a great advantage. Saves an electrician having to call out the DNO (and the charges) if they need to do something big to the consumer unit.

Any probability which is non zero is too high and an accident waiting to happen (at least in my paranoid mind!)

 

The outcome here is that someone could walk up to the side of the house, cut power to all alarms and cameras and proceed to rob us at leisure? I don't understand what is lost by putting the breaker inside the house - behind a layer of security. You still turn it off before doing anything to the CU?

[-rick-]

Just now, Indy said:

Any probability which is non zero is too high and an accident waiting to happen (at least in my paranoid mind!)

 

The outcome here is that someone could walk up to the side of the house, cut power to all alarms and cameras and proceed to rob us at leisure? I don't understand what is lost by putting the breaker inside the house - behind a layer of security. You still turn it off before doing anything to the CU?

 

Any alarm system worth it's salt has a backup battery to avoid that situation. Plenty of the modern cameras can be got with batteries too, or if powered by POE you get a small UPS for the POE switch.

 

You are more likely to suffer a power cut than someone intentionally switching off the power for nefarious reasons so having battery backup for some vital things is the logical thing to do if this is a concern even if you don't have the switch.

 

We've had exterior water and gas shut off valves for a very long time. It's an historical quirk that it's only recently become standard to have an electrical isolator (though some meters have had a built in isolation method for a while, though maybe not as obvious to the observer).

 

If you really want to shut yourself off then put up walls and gates around the property. Maybe you are supposed to enable accessibility by the DNO at all times but they are very unlikely to do anything about it if they visit and find a locked gate (other than ring the bell to gain access).

[Indy]

1 hour ago, -rick- said:

 

Any alarm system worth it's salt has a backup battery to avoid that situation. Plenty of the modern cameras can be got with batteries too, or if powered by POE you get a small UPS for the POE switch.

 

You are more likely to suffer a power cut than someone intentionally switching off the power for nefarious reasons so having battery backup for some vital things is the logical thing to do if this is a concern even if you don't have the switch.

 

We've had exterior water and gas shut off valves for a very long time. It's an historical quirk that it's only recently become standard to have an electrical isolator (though some meters have had a built in isolation method for a while, though maybe not as obvious to the observer).

 

If you really want to shut yourself off then put up walls and gates around the property. Maybe you are supposed to enable accessibility by the DNO at all times but they are very unlikely to do anything about it if they visit and find a locked gate (other than ring the bell to gain access).

 

On the verge of taking this thread off topic - so I'll do one final reply and let it rest. I'm not arguing against why it's needed but the fact remains that it's location is not optimum for the customers. It may be for DNO.

 

I extensively argued this with UKPN, my electrician and main contractor to understand why and the final response was - just because we say so!! 

 

I am having a full battery backup system for the house, the alarm system comes with its own battery, the cameras will be served by both the rack mounted UPS and then a whole home battery backup system. But these are measures I put in and shouldn't really be part of the conversation.

 

The onus is entirely on new builds to comply to this regulation. For my existing 1930s house - the meters are all under the stairs in a cupboard which is not accessible and that provision has worked miraculously for almost ~100 years. 

 

The final puzzling piece of the equation was that we already have smart meters - so what is the need for any engineer to come around and take readings anyway? Isn't the whole point of a smart meter to send these automatically/periodically?

[-rick-]

5 minutes ago, Indy said:

On the verge of taking this thread off topic - so I'll do one final reply and let it rest. I'm not arguing against why it's needed but the fact remains that it's location is not optimum for the customers. It may be for DNO.

 

I think there are two main reasons for the location as close to meter as possible.

1. If you are doing work (like moving a consumer unit) then you might be changing all the wiring all the way back to the meter so that's where you need the isolator

2. If you need to isolate a fault then you need to be able to isolate as much cabling as possible (too many instances of people drilling through a cable between the meter and the CU (there is a short distance limit before you need armoured cable but still).

 

5 minutes ago, Indy said:

I am having a full battery backup system for the house, the alarm system comes with its own battery, the cameras will be served by both the rack mounted UPS and then a whole home battery backup system. But these are measures I put in and shouldn't really be part of the conversation.

 

New rules mean battery systems will need an external, accessible, fire switch if not now then soon (and this one has to be visible from a distance). That means there will be another external switch that a nefarious person could flip.

 

5 minutes ago, Indy said:

The onus is entirely on new builds to comply to this regulation. For my existing 1930s house - the meters are all under the stairs in a cupboard which is not accessible and that provision has worked miraculously for almost ~100 years. 

 

Often these switches are fitted by default when a meter upgrade is done so it's not just new builds. Many electricians will recommend getting the DNO to fit one vs paying the DNO to come isolate the system for an electrical project as it's easier and less disruption (possibly less cost) to do it that way.

 

5 minutes ago, Indy said:

The final puzzling piece of the equation was that we already have smart meters - so what is the need for any engineer to come around and take readings anyway? Isn't the whole point of a smart meter to send these automatically/periodically?

 

They do but I think there is still a periodic physical inspection. But yes, the need for external meters is less now, but that's not the reason for an external isolator I think external connection points are here to stay.

[jimseng]

Thanks everybody. The DNO confirmed that the sloping install inside the meter box is standard for a flush mount. He did say that the installation on the pole would be redone. The ducting is only exposed because we didn't back fill that part of the trench in order for the DNO to gain access to the end of the duct. I think the way they cut the duct we buried and hooked up the hockey stick is poor, as is the connection on the pole. I guess we'll have to finish it off ourselves. I don't really know what we pay for nowadays. I had to pay up front.
What is the workd coming to? (And other things old people mutter to themselves)