Critique my floorplan please

[Square Feet]

Hi, I've been messing around in Sketchup trying to come up with a basic floorplan for my single storey house in Southern Scotland. I'm not a professional at CAD or anything so please forgive the roughness of the plans. They are very much a sketch at this stage. The design is loosely based on a house built to passive standards in Herefordshire in 2018 called Old Holloway which featured in a design segment on a Grand Designs episode.  I liked the 'just enough' ethos of the design, but I have changed the layout. It is helpful that the architect has a blog which details a lot of temperature performance stats for the house and so on.  The cranked external area is based on another Grand Designs featured property - again in Herefordshire. 

 

Some points:

The external walls aren't shown thick enough at the moment as that part hasn't been finalised. Just now they are shown at around 350mm which is obviously not enough.

The internal walls are shown at 200mm thickness and the internal doorways at 900mm.

Internally will be a vaulted ceiling.  Some parts ie bathrooms might be flat ceilings with storage above but I haven't worked that out yet.

The internal wall height of the non-vaulted part is 2400mm. The lowest part of the wall in the lean-to is 1800mm.

The angle of the main roof is 40 degrees.

I've forgotten to mark north on the drawings but it is at the bottom of the page in the floorplan ie where the Sketchup logo is.

Prevailing wind is from the south-south-west. The building isn't massively exposed but isn't particularly sheltered either.

I'm planning on some sort of shading for the south face of the building, but I haven't figured that out yet.

The building will be clad externally in black agricultural sheeting. It is in a rural area so I am hopeful that planning will allow this. 

There will also be an 8m x 6m garage which will be used to store bikes, hobby kit, tools etc.

 

I'd love to know your thoughts and clever ideas.

 

 

 

[-rick-]

Might come back with more thoughts later but these are things that spring to mind on first look:

1. If your master bed is 2000mm long (larger/european beds are often this length) then you only have 639mm of walking room around the end of it. Seems tight.

2. Relatedly, bed 2 seems disproportionate. What are you going to do with that space at the end of the bed?

3. Linked to point 1, both beds appear to be the same size. If they aren't already king/super king size then consider making the allocated space in the master suitable for that (even if you don't initially want a bed that big). Thinking mainly of window positions as that can't change later. Having said that, I like your positioning of the window centralised to the central corridor. That's a nice feature so keep that.

4. On that central corridor you may consider whether that flow through should continue (or be intentionally interrupted). What you have now seems neither.

5. Living/Kitchen/Diner doesn't sit quite right to me. Not sure why yet but keep juggling options here.

6. Front door opening direct onto the living space as currently seems a bit suboptimal. Not sure there's a better option but as with 5, playing with things may open up options.

 

Stepping back and only regurgitating what I've read others say on here, consider how far you want to go into the details before speaking to an architect. If you are working on a tight budget and plan to spend minimum on architects (ie, more a arch-tech not architect) then go ahead and do as much yourself, but if you want to engage a proper architect then spending too much time now may artificially limit the options available to the architect.

 

I'm sure there are lots of similar channels out there but I've found the 'fixing floorplans' videos made by Noah Daniel to be fairly inspiring with lots of good ideas how to make a great space. Maybe take a look. https://www.youtube.com/@noahdaniel.studio

 

[ProDave]

Related to points 1 and 2 above, the en-suite is too small, I really don't think you will actually fit a shower, WC and basin into that space with all the required activity spaces.

 

Do you REALLY want kitchen/ diner living as one room?  We lived a while in this house as it was being built using the kitchen / diner as a living room as well.  The noise of the fridge in what is supposed to be a quiet space irritated me, not to mention when the dishwasher went on.  For me a separate living room is a must.

 

One thought if you want to cover all bases is that straight wall would lend itself to accommodating a huge sliding door to close the two rooms off should you wish?

 

I am not sure your kitchen is big enough to support a kitchen island under Scottish regs. You definitely need a 1400 by 1200 activity space between the island and the main kitchen units, you would have to check what the minimum width required is to pass the ends of the island.

 

I would not use a roof pitch of 40 degrees.  45 is So much easier for marking out and actually building it.  Only go lower if there is a height limit in planning.

[Indy]

1. Circulation space in Bedroom 1 feels more cramped than in Bedroom 2
2. Bedroom3/Study is quite tight at only 2m wide - if it is a study, then fine. For a bedroom, I would go bigger. 
3. I'd keep the vaulted ceilings in the living/dining areas and bedrooms but certainly create a flat space above the hallways/bathrooms. Quite useful for running MVHR ducts and some sort of mini plant room (which is what we've done). 
4. Internal walls at 200mm are quite thick? Even assuming blockwork - 100mm plus plasterboard/skim means a bit of saving and 'extra space' in some rooms here
5. Personally, I would have more glazing in the living/dining area but that could open up to solar gain as it looks south facing. 
6. Again, this is a personal choice but I would swap the kitchen and dining areas over - have a run of tall units on the back wall and a proper island. Current placement of the island looks out of place - and blocks the flow from the living area to the bedrooms. Much nicer views when using the kitchen and I guess eating at the island for a majority of the time - rather than the dining table. 

 

Edited yesterday at 16:26 by Indy

[Square Feet]

3 hours ago, -rick- said:

Might come back with more thoughts later but these are things that spring to mind on first look:

1. If your master bed is 2000mm long (larger/european beds are often this length) then you only have 639mm of walking room around the end of it. Seems tight.

2. Relatedly, bed 2 seems disproportionate. What are you going to do with that space at the end of the bed?

3. Linked to point 1, both beds appear to be the same size. If they aren't already king/super king size then consider making the allocated space in the master suitable for that (even if you don't initially want a bed that big). Thinking mainly of window positions as that can't change later. Having said that, I like your positioning of the window centralised to the central corridor. That's a nice feature so keep that.

4. On that central corridor you may consider whether that flow through should continue (or be intentionally interrupted). What you have now seems neither.

5. Living/Kitchen/Diner doesn't sit quite right to me. Not sure why yet but keep juggling options here.

6. Front door opening direct onto the living space as currently seems a bit suboptimal. Not sure there's a better option but as with 5, playing with things may open up options.

 

Stepping back and only regurgitating what I've read others say on here, consider how far you want to go into the details before speaking to an architect. If you are working on a tight budget and plan to spend minimum on architects (ie, more a arch-tech not architect) then go ahead and do as much yourself, but if you want to engage a proper architect then spending too much time now may artificially limit the options available to the architect.

 

I'm sure there are lots of similar channels out there but I've found the 'fixing floorplans' videos made by Noah Daniel to be fairly inspiring with lots of good ideas how to make a great space. Maybe take a look. https://www.youtube.com/@noahdaniel.studio

 

1. Fair point but I think I may have the internal walls a bit thick so maybe 650mm at the end of the bed?  I will practice at home and see how that feels.
2. I was thinking my son would stay in this room when he is home so maybe a desk looking out and a chair to throw his old clothes on?
3. Yes I like that too. I was actually going to put a window in the ensuite at the gable end to balance the other two and form some symmetry but I forgot.
4. Not sure what you mean there.
5. OK. On Old Holloway the kitchen is a U shape sideways and seems a bit constrained. There's also not enough space for their dining table to my mind but that's because they've taken a chunk out of the building to act as a sun shade (I will attach some pics below).  It just feels from looking at it and watching the videos where they are sitting around the table that it would benefit from a metre or more of space to get by.  The half dividing wall between kitchen and living room was placed there to act as a support for the main ridge beam.
6. I quite liked that if I am honest. I'd rather that than lose a whole room's worth of space to a lobby. I think it would show off the views right from the first step in the door.

Other bits - I am on an extremely tight budget so I am hoping that between Gus Potter (SE) and I we could dispense with an architect. I get that they can be worth the money, but it's also no point them designing something that is impractical to build, so I probably value Gus's input more. But yeah - I guess I am asking in here as real-world input from actual self-builders is invaluable for this sort of stuff. I will check out the link.

Edited yesterday at 18:52 by Square Feet

[Square Feet]

2 hours ago, ProDave said:

1 - Related to points 1 and 2 above, the en-suite is too small, I really don't think you will actually fit a shower, WC and basin into that space with all the required activity spaces.

 

2 - Do you REALLY want kitchen/ diner living as one room?  We lived a while in this house as it was being built using the kitchen / diner as a living room as well.  The noise of the fridge in what is supposed to be a quiet space irritated me, not to mention when the dishwasher went on.  For me a separate living room is a must.

 

3 - One thought if you want to cover all bases is that straight wall would lend itself to accommodating a huge sliding door to close the two rooms off should you wish?

 

4 - I am not sure your kitchen is big enough to support a kitchen island under Scottish regs. You definitely need a 1400 by 1200 activity space between the island and the main kitchen units, you would have to check what the minimum width required is to pass the ends of the island.

 

5 - I would not use a roof pitch of 40 degrees.  45 is So much easier for marking out and actually building it.  Only go lower if there is a height limit in planning.

1. Ok, I know I need to check that. It seemed like it should be as it's bigger than my 2nd bathroom at home but I will do the maths and make sure.
2. I think the open plan thing should be ok for me. I can just put the dishwasher on when I go to bed. I doubt I'd hear a fridge over the telly but I might. If it's really a problem I could carry the partition right across at a later date. 
3. This was actually my plan at first but with the vaulted ceiling I think it would be too complex. 
4. Ok, I will check that thanks.
5. Ok, I was going with Gus's advice but will talk it over with him.

Cheers

 

[-rick-]

32 minutes ago, Square Feet said:

1. Fair point but I think I may have the internal walls a bit thick so maybe 650mm at the end of the bed?  I will practice at home and see how that feels.

 

650mm might be ok, but still seems tight. I think if you want to design for accessibility you need more like 800mm. Given the space you are working with (and other areas of seemingly big open space) I think I'd personally want to use some of that space here.

 

32 minutes ago, Square Feet said:

2. I was thinking my son would stay in this room when he is home so maybe a desk looking out and a chair to throw his old clothes on?

 

Maybe model it and see how things fit. Even if you need all that space, I would be tempted to shift the whole room right to create more space in the master.

 

Another thing to consider is whether making this room wider but not as long would work (needs shifting other things around but I think you have potential to do it if you want).

 

32 minutes ago, Square Feet said:

3. Yes I like that too. I was actually going to put a window in the ensuite at the gable end to balance the other two and form some symmetry but I forgot.

4. Not sure what you mean there.

 

You mean external symmetry? For symmetry inside, I was thinking you'd put a window in line with the bedroom one at the other end of the building. So theres a continuous path through the building (if you leave the bedroom door open). But you also have kitchen island/wall in the way (even if needed for roof support it can likely be altered to accommodate this). Basically I like the idea but I think there is potential to improve it. I mentioned Noah Daniel before, he has a couple of floor plans where he's done this and the before/after from sometimes very minor changes is amazing.

 

Does this clear things up? Not sure I'm getting across my thoughts.

 

32 minutes ago, Square Feet said:

5. OK. On Old Holloway the kitchen is a U shape sideways and seems a bit constrained. There's also not enough space for their dining table to my mind but that's because they've taken a chunk out of the building to act as a sun shade (I will attach some pics below).  It just feels from looking at it and watching the videos where they are sitting around the table that it would benefit from a metre or more of space to get by.  The half dividing wall between kitchen and living room was placed there to act as a support for the main ridge beam.

 

Dining tables come in lots of sizes (even for the same number of people). Obviously you want something that feels roomy but just worth bearing in mind that a different table might feel different. If they have bench seating (as in the drawing) that will close things in even more.

 

The layouts are very different. I like yours more but I still get the feeling it can be further improved.

 

32 minutes ago, Square Feet said:

6. I quite liked that if I am honest. I'd rather that than lose a whole room's worth of space to a lobby. I think it would show off the views right from the first step in the door.

 

Obviously it comes down to personal taste. As you have it is good for welcome guests as a wow factor but will be less good if you get unwelcome people at your door. Those you might not want seeing everything.

 

To be clear I'm not saying you need a whole private lobby area, but think about ways of creating a bit more privacy if you want it.

 

32 minutes ago, Square Feet said:

Other bits - I am on an extremely tight budget so I am hoping that between Gus Potter (SE) and I we could dispense with an architect. I get that they can be worth the money, but it's also no point them designing something that is impractical to build, so I probably value Gus's input more. But yeah - I guess I am asking in here as real-world input from actual self-builders is invaluable for this sort of stuff. I will check out the link.

 

Ok, here I have some further thoughts.

 

If you are on a limited budget then you might really want to think about your windows. If you stick to standard size glass then the glass is cheap and the frames are expensive. Your long narrow windows have a lot of frame to glass. If you go over about 1x2.4m then glass starts to get expensive, as does installation and handling it (it also increases the cost of the frames as they have to support the weight).

 

Additionally, you have windows down the floor. The detailing of this will be more tricky to make look good. If you are doing all this yourself then might well be worth it for the look but if you are paying people to do it then it's an expensive look, especially as you are doing it on every window.

 

Stepping back, part of the design of a new build is to place the property on the land. I know you've been shy about the plot details for good reasons but maybe it's worth sharing a little more (even vague outlines) to see if the plot offers opportunities?

[Square Feet]

2 hours ago, Indy said:

1. Circulation space in Bedroom 1 feels more cramped than in Bedroom 2
2. Bedroom3/Study is quite tight at only 2m wide - if it is a study, then fine. For a bedroom, I would go bigger. 
3. I'd keep the vaulted ceilings in the living/dining areas and bedrooms but certainly create a flat space above the hallways/bathrooms. Quite useful for running MVHR ducts and some sort of mini plant room (which is what we've done). 
4. Internal walls at 200mm are quite thick? Even assuming blockwork - 100mm plus plasterboard/skim means a bit of saving and 'extra space' in some rooms here
5. Personally, I would have more glazing in the living/dining area but that could open up to solar gain as it looks south facing. 
6. Again, this is a personal choice but I would swap the kitchen and dining areas over - have a run of tall units on the back wall and a proper island. Current placement of the island looks out of place - and blocks the flow from the living area to the bedrooms. Much nicer views when using the kitchen and I guess eating at the island for a majority of the time - rather than the dining table. 

 

1. Got it - will look into that.
2. Yeah I know - I can't see how to make it bigger without increasing the footprint though.
3. Will do
4. Yes, I wasn't sure how big they needed to be so went over rather than under.
5. I'm worried about overheating - I did have larger patio doors/bifolds in there but it's a lot of glass that's bang south facing.
6. I think I want the dining table to be near the fantastic view.

Cheers

[Square Feet]

Thanks @-rick- Will reply properly tomorrow. 

[Square Feet]

15 hours ago, -rick- said:

 

650mm might be ok, but still seems tight. I think if you want to design for accessibility you need more like 800mm. Given the space you are working with (and other areas of seemingly big open space) I think I'd personally want to use some of that space here.

 

 

Maybe model it and see how things fit. Even if you need all that space, I would be tempted to shift the whole room right to create more space in the master.

 

Another thing to consider is whether making this room wider but not as long would work (needs shifting other things around but I think you have potential to do it if you want).

 

 

You mean external symmetry? For symmetry inside, I was thinking you'd put a window in line with the bedroom one at the other end of the building. So theres a continuous path through the building (if you leave the bedroom door open). But you also have kitchen island/wall in the way (even if needed for roof support it can likely be altered to accommodate this). Basically I like the idea but I think there is potential to improve it. I mentioned Noah Daniel before, he has a couple of floor plans where he's done this and the before/after from sometimes very minor changes is amazing.

 

Does this clear things up? Not sure I'm getting across my thoughts.

 

 

Dining tables come in lots of sizes (even for the same number of people). Obviously you want something that feels roomy but just worth bearing in mind that a different table might feel different. If they have bench seating (as in the drawing) that will close things in even more.

 

The layouts are very different. I like yours more but I still get the feeling it can be further improved.

 

 

Obviously it comes down to personal taste. As you have it is good for welcome guests as a wow factor but will be less good if you get unwelcome people at your door. Those you might not want seeing everything.

 

To be clear I'm not saying you need a whole private lobby area, but think about ways of creating a bit more privacy if you want it.

 

 

Ok, here I have some further thoughts.

 

If you are on a limited budget then you might really want to think about your windows. If you stick to standard size glass then the glass is cheap and the frames are expensive. Your long narrow windows have a lot of frame to glass. If you go over about 1x2.4m then glass starts to get expensive, as does installation and handling it (it also increases the cost of the frames as they have to support the weight).

 

Additionally, you have windows down the floor. The detailing of this will be more tricky to make look good. If you are doing all this yourself then might well be worth it for the look but if you are paying people to do it then it's an expensive look, especially as you are doing it on every window.

 

Stepping back, part of the design of a new build is to place the property on the land. I know you've been shy about the plot details for good reasons but maybe it's worth sharing a little more (even vague outlines) to see if the plot offers opportunities?

Ok, I will look at shifting the bedrooms to the right to steal a wee bit of space off the kitchen and make Bedroom 1  a bit wider.

Yes the window in the centre of the bedroom gable wall was intentional to allow sight lines and light to flow through the coridoor. 

I will watch some Noah Daniel this weekend - thanks for the tip.

There is a kind of lobby in that there's two porches - the open one outside (ie just a roof to keep the rain off) and the inner one. So anyone at the door will come to the outer porch and wait for me to open the two doors to speak to them. They will only see into the closed porch unless I put in a glass door between the living room and closed porch.

The windows I am hoping to get from Green Doors who sell second hand or order-error windows and doors. They are good quality ie Dan Wood 3G but much lower prices. The difficulty with this is that they need bought at the beginning and the house built around them as I can't guarantee supply of the sizes I need. But they are cheap. It's also challenging to get enough matching windows/doors in one go of the kind I need but I could get some made up to match and the total bill would still be a lot less.

I have a friend who self built and he put floor to ceiling narrow windows in his place. I absolutely love them. Gus has warned me that they aren't great from a structural perspective, but I do think they are worth the trouble. The connection to the outside they offer is fantastic. This architect's house uses them to great effect. The elevations were done for me by my son and I can see that he hasn't put the kitchen window in as a long thin horizontal one, but has shown it floor-to-ceiling which is wrong. 

Yes I will do a plot sketch. That's something I would separately like help with as I am a bit lost as to where best to place the garage etc.

Many thanks

Edited 8 hours ago by Square Feet

[Square Feet]

I'd love your input @ETC if you are still around.....

[-rick-]

4 minutes ago, Square Feet said:

There is a kind of lobby in that there's two porches - the open one outside (ie just a roof to keep the rain off) and the inner one. So anyone at the door will come to the outer porch and wait for me to open the two doors to speak to them. They will only see into the closed porch unless I put a in a glass door between the living room and closed porch.

 

Of course. For some reason I missed/forgot that!

 

4 minutes ago, Square Feet said:

The windows I am hoping to get from Green Doors who sell second hand or order-error windows and doors. They are good quality ie Dan Wood 3G but much lower prices. The difficulty with this is that they need bought at the beginning and the house built around them as I can't guarantee supply of the sizes I need. But they are cheap. It's also challenging to get enough matching windows/doors in one go of the kind I need but I could get some made up to match and the total bill would still be a lot less.

I have a friend who self built and he put floor to ceiling narrow windows in his place. I absolutely love them. Gus has warned me that they aren't great from a structural perspective, but I do think they are worth the trouble. The connection to the outside they offer is fantastic. This architect's house uses them to great effect. 

 

Cool. A challenge indeed but if you are up for it then they will no doubt look great!

[Square Feet]

12 minutes ago, -rick- said:

Cool. A challenge indeed but if you are up for it then they will no doubt look great!

I think so - especially if I can get the level of the decking to match the flooring inside so that it all seems to the eye to flow on outwards.

[Square Feet]

Here's a link to a vid about Old Holloway for anyone who might be interested.

 

[Mike]

Without reworking the whole design, the main change I'd make is switching the kitchen to the other side of the room, allowing a larger living room by cutting down on the 'virtual corridor' space on the original:

 

 

I'd probably use a little of that space gained to make the main bedroom suite a little wider.

 

 

[-rick-]

I'm feeling too lazy to try and draw this. But if you made the master 3m wide then you would have room to rotate the wardrobes 90 degrees so the doors face the bed. That would give you room to expand the bathroom. I think overall that gives much better proportions to the master suite.

 

I'd also be tempted to switch the second bathroom/bedroom. That would mean the bulk of plumbing could be centralised. Ideally, I'd want the hot water tank to be co-located there to minimise pipe runs for hot water. The current location for the plant room is ideal for the ashp but not much else. A more central location would make various runs easier but I'd guess that central space is more valuable as is.

 

16 minutes ago, Mike said:

Without reworking the whole design, the main change I'd make is switching the kitchen to the other side of the room, allowing a larger living room by cutting down on the 'virtual corridor' space on the original

 

I think @Square Feet mentioned some reasons not to do this earlier. I'm not sure either way, there might be a 3rd option. However, will point out that by doing as you propose there is the potential for the 'corridor' from the front door to act as space around the dining table (double duty) that might allow room for the bathroom/study given the expansion of the master.