Unobtrusive Isolators close to Ovens but needing very long cable runs, are such runs OK.

[MikeSharp01]

The 'interior designer' has persuaded me to locate the isolators for the ovens on the kitchen island so they do not break up the aesthetic of the oven wall. These would be 1.4m from the Ovens across the gangway from the wall with the ovens. Each oven has a max draw of 3600W so 7.2kW with both on full power. Each of the two ovens will have there own 32A isolator in the Consumer Unit (CU), To achieve the run it ends up as a lot of 6mm cable: CU - Island (12m) & Island - Oven (15m) I am going to have 27m run (Voltage drop 3.5V approx), none in insulation but in duct and trunking. [I would need only 5m of 6mm cable if the switches were local to the ovens] So for these two ovens I will need just over 50m of cable which in itself is not a problem but I thought I would get a sanity check here to be sure I am not breaking any rules doing this - it looks OK to me regs wise.

 

Any thoughts - should I push back on the interior designer?

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, MikeSharp01 said:

The 'interior designer' has persuaded me to locate the isolators for the ovens on the kitchen island so they do not break up the aesthetic of the oven wall. These would be 1.4m from the Ovens across the gangway from the wall with the ovens. Each oven has a max draw of 3600W so 7.2kW with both on full power. Each of the two ovens will have there own 32A isolator in the Consumer Unit (CU), To achieve the run it ends up as a lot of 6mm cable: CU - Island (12m) & Island - Oven (15m) I am going to have 27m run (Voltage drop 3.5V approx), none in insulation but in duct and trunking. [I would need only 5m of 6mm cable if the switches were local to the ovens] So for these two ovens I will need just over 50m of cable which in itself is not a problem but I thought I would get a sanity check here to be sure I am not breaking any rules doing this - it looks OK to me regs wise.

 

Any thoughts - should I push back on the interior designer?

What appliances are in the island? Hob I assume?

 

Your designer is spot on, in getting rid of the wall-warts, I always hide these under an adjacent cupboard / unit, Fugly on a good day imho. However, where you need to push back is, the location; have the hob isolator under the island / hob, and the oven isolators in the adjacent units.

[MikeSharp01]

6 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

hide these under an adjacent cupboard / unit

I could put them in the cupboard below the ovens - the one above would be too high up, would that work? The hob is on the island along with the kitchen ring.

[G and J]

2 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said:

I could put them in the cupboard below the ovens - the one above would be too high up, would that work? The hob is on the island along with the kitchen ring.

Ours are (and/or will be) hidden away in nearby cupboards.  You need access every Julember so why worry about convenient access?

[joth]

It's best to check with whoever will be completing the EIC as appropriate location of isolators is in the regs and quite subjective. Ours insisted on putting them in the very nearest cupboard, which has resulted in a few getting knocked by large items being shoved into said cupboard 

 

Recently I've seen on other projects that electricians seem much less concerned these days, either putting all isolators together next to the CU, perhaps using minigrid switches, or even omitting isolators completely (e.g. for outside blinds). 

If they're happy signing the EIC then fair game. Pretty sure they had more conventional isolator for anything over 13A. 

Edited June 29 by joth

[Nickfromwales]

13 hours ago, joth said:

It's best to check with whoever will be completing the EIC as appropriate location of isolators is in the regs and quite subjective. 

Location of isolators is wide open, and only stubborn electricians would try to polish their sheriffs badge over this tbh. These are there ONLY for localised disconnection, and not for safety etc. Sounds like either a lack of education or dick-swinging went on there.

 

If a sparky told me these were going next to the CU, he'd be going...................on the next bus.

 

16 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said:

I could put them in the cupboard below the ovens - the one above would be too high up, would that work? The hob is on the island along with the kitchen ring.

As above, in units / cupboards immediately adjacent is my go-to solution; so put the hob one in the island. Ask your spark to connect the hob with some HO5 flex and leave enough length to completely remove the hob and set it aside on the island, upside down, for future-proofing.

 

13 hours ago, joth said:

Ours insisted on putting them in the very nearest cupboard, which has resulted in a few getting knocked by large items being shoved into said cupboard 

So, brain-dead then. Off to the side and up very high is the order of the day.

 

The lack of GAF or joined-up thinking with trades still astounds me. That's what keeps me in a job, so, long live the muppets......

[joth]

1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

 

If a sparky told me these were going next to the CU, he'd be going...................on the next bus.

In the real world these decisions are really a dialogue, not a mandate. But can be an asymmetric dialogue if the customer isn't informed of the alternatives.

Either way point is to start that dialogue early rather than push it into brinkmanship. Many self builders are not in the position to be able to fire their electrician on a whim over the position of one isolator switch, so better to have the conversation at first fix rather than after the walls and floors are sealed 

 

 

[MikeSharp01]

5 hours ago, joth said:

In the real world these decisions are really a dialogue, not a mandate. But can be an asymmetric dialogue if the customer isn't informed of the alternatives.

Either way point is to start that dialogue early rather than push it into brinkmanship.

Dialogue is always a good approach and one thing this place has taught me is that there are often ideas out there that have not hit your consciousness and this thread is an example. It has saved me about £200 in 6mm cable and a lot of working pulling cables through ducts and along trays - so its a win for me. I do need to build a bit of infrastructure to mount the switches but otherwise its a winner. Thanks all.

 

[Spinny]

Here are a couple of pics showing where we got to with our sparky. Isolation switches in the back of a cupboard for everything on the hob run. (Our sink is going on the island, hob against the wall).

I guess your cable length issue is because you have no direct conduit/trunking between wall run and island. Fortunately we put some in under the floor and it has proven very useful.

 

We are going to put a 3 gang light switch on our island end panel for under wall cabinet wall lights, under worktop LED strip, and shelving LED strip - so cable run happily goes through the hob to island conduit. (As does a water pipe in a separate conduit)

 

(One day in the far off future I suppose kitchen companies might provide designed in electrical box locations, rather than vaguely saying 'one of these cupboards'.)

[Nickfromwales]

8 hours ago, joth said:

In the real world these decisions are really a dialogue, not a mandate. But can be an asymmetric dialogue if the customer isn't informed of the alternatives.

Either way point is to start that dialogue early rather than push it into brinkmanship. Many self builders are not in the position to be able to fire their electrician on a whim over the position of one isolator switch, so better to have the conversation at first fix rather than after the walls and floors are sealed 

 

 

Yup. I usually discuss the fundamentals before the construction phase, eg plant rooms / location of CU / 1ph or 3ph etc and do a basic list of circuits + equipment for getting the connection criteria prepped for the DNO application. 
 

Then, once the sub and super structure are complete we have the next chats for the finer details; by that stage I usually have some provisional design freezes in place for kitchens / bathrooms etc and make suggestions as to ‘what goes where’.
 

Much more sensible to do that once there’s a home to walk about in, and stuff almost always changes when it’s not on a screen anymore.

 

Good trades are hard to find, but they are out there, they just always need booking in 3 months in advance! 

[MikeSharp01]

11 hours ago, Spinny said:

One day in the far off future I suppose kitchen companies might provide designed in electrical box locations, rather than vaguely saying 'one of these cupboards'.)

How tall do you need to be to operate those switches.

[Nickfromwales]

13 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

How tall do you need to be to operate those switches.

900 - 930mm to top of worktop, then another 450mm to the underside of the bottom shelf of the wall unit. 
 

So not very tall  

[dpmiller]

could a 5-foot-nothing lady see and reach said isolators? Wheelchair user?

[Nickfromwales]

2 hours ago, dpmiller said:

could a 5-foot-nothing lady see and reach said isolators? Wheelchair user?

Nonsense argument. 🤦‍♂️. 

 

”Disabled visitable”,

 

“Disabled adaptable”,

 

or

 

“Disabled persons home”?

 

Do you expect a wheelchair bound visitor to your home to be able to reach your oven isolator?

 

A disabled persons home would be built around their own, stated, specific needs, such as @Benpointer. 
 

Apologies for terminology, I’m never sure if I should be saying “less-abled” or other. 
 

If the home owner is 5’ tall, the electrician should suggest things to suit their stature, much as this week I have asked my (non 5’ tall) clients if they’d like to accept my suggestion that we raise the vanity units by 30mm to suit their ‘tallness’.

 

If you told said 5-foot nothing lady she doesn’t need wall units in her kitchen because she’ll never be able to reach them, I’d expect her to punch you in the bollocks, without bending down, and then go get a step stool out for you to sit on until the pain subsided. .

[Spinny]

I do wonder whether the approach to this accessible appliance isolation switch requirement ought to change anyway.

Wouldn't things be a lot easier if a suitable DIN Rail box was installed somewhere with all the cables run via that location. Then wireless DIN switches installed. Siting and operating switches to isolate any appliance would then be as simple as installing wireless smart switches anywhere you wanted (or indeed using just an App).

[Nickfromwales]

On 02/07/2026 at 08:12, Spinny said:

Wouldn't things be a lot easier if a suitable DIN Rail box was installed somewhere with all the cables run via that location. Then wireless DIN switches installed. Siting and operating switches to isolate any appliance would then be as simple as installing wireless smart switches anywhere you wanted (or indeed using just an App).

? Erm, no.

 

A £10-£15 switch which you press your finger against, very occasionally, to select ON or OFF, is the most simple, easy, cost effective solution.

 

Smart switching very high current loads would require contactors and more kit / palaver. 

[joth]

On 05/07/2026 at 11:17, Nickfromwales said:

? Erm, no.

 

lol That's my gut feel too, and usually I'm all-in on smart (home) tech.

 

However smart breakers are coming and could indeed eventually make a lot of the need for local isolators obsolete, if one actually has a vague idea how to remotely connect to and trip-off the appropriate circuit.

https://kb.shelly.cloud/knowledge-base/shelly-pro-cbs

https://www.infineon.com/application/solid-state-circuit-breaker

 

Despite my scepticism I do see the attraction of having per-circuit current/power monitoring built into each breaker. And digitally tripping off circuits could be a tidy way of implementing centrally coordinated load-shedding e.g. if failing over to battery during a grid outage.

But as a mechanism for home owner or handyman to randomly frobnicate circuits on/off when doing misc maintenance... I don't buy it. Just too much cognitive overhead vs having a good old switch at the location.

... btw I'm skipping over the elephant in the room for the devices listed above - at least the shelly - are MCBs not RCBO, and is taking up a double-module width at that. And I imagine lack 18ed approvals. Makes it a complete non-starter right now, but it's just immature product and totally solvable in due course. It's the fundamental usability for a safety critical application I'm doubting.

Edited 4 hours ago by joth

[Spinny]

Yes, it may not be ready yet, but I think things are very much moving towards making it possible at some point in the future.

I always find it interesting to wonder why we do things in a particular way and how they could change. 

 

I guess it is analagous to always on lighting circuits. I can turn the circuit on/off remotely at the Sonoff module now, not just at the consumer unit. And, well, the physical light switch may have little to do with the circuit power status.

 

Mr ChatGPT says...

 

Quote

If you mean a smart DIN rail switch that directly carries the load current, the practical upper limit is generally 63 A. While you may occasionally see products advertised at 80 A, 100 A, or even 125 A, these are uncommon, often lack major certifications, and are usually better thought of as remote-operated isolators rather than devices you'd want switching large loads regularly.

Here's the typical range:

Current	Common?	Notes
16 A	Very common	Lighting, sockets
32 A	Common	EV chargers, water heaters
40 A	Common	Small subcircuits
63 A	Most common maximum	Whole-house feeds, large circuits
80–125 A	Rare	Usually niche products with limited certification

If you actually need more than 63 A

The recommended approach is not to switch the load directly. Instead:

• Use a smart DIN rail relay (or smart switch).
• Have it energize a DIN rail contactor rated for the required current.

For example:

• Smart relay (Shelly Pro, Sonoff, Finder YESLY, ABB, Schneider, etc.)
• →
• 100 A, 125 A, 160 A, or even 250 A modular contactor
• →
• Your load

This is the method used in commercial installations because:

• contactors are designed for frequent switching,
• they're available in very high current ratings,
• they're easier to replace,
• they have proper AC switching ratings.

Highest-current options

If you're looking for:

• 100 A – available as modular contactors from ABB, Schneider Electric, Eaton, Siemens, Finder, etc.
• 125 A – common.
• 160 A – readily available.
• 250 A+ – industrial contactors are common.

You simply control the contactor coil with a smart device.

For Home Assistant

A popular combination is:

• Shelly Pro 1 or Shelly Pro 2
• Sonoff DIN relay
• Finder smart relay

driving an ABB or Schneider modular contactor. This gives you reliable smart control of virtually any current without depending on an oversized smart relay. Community discussions also commonly recommend placing smart DIN switches behind a proper breaker and using them to control a contactor for higher-current loads.

If your goal is to switch 100–200 A for a whole-house supply, solar battery, EV charging, or generator transfer, let me know the application. The best hardware differs significantly depending on whether you're switching a resistive load, motors, an inverter, or an entire service feed.