Replacement pump recommendation

[jfb]

Can anyone recommend a suitable pump replacement for this one?

 

well, I’m assuming it’s the pump as the boiler is working but the heat never gets far from the boiler at all and the pump is making non standard noises!

[Nickfromwales]

Gravity system with a heat only boiler?

 

I'm less of a fan of Grundfos these days, and am steering towards Wilo more often. The 5 means 5m head, so most off the shelf standard circulators will do the job.

 

This one may suit your needs and should be available locally LINK

 

Hopefully the pump valves will hold well enough for a deft switch over, but expect them to not close fully.

[John Carroll]

Open & shut the pump isolating valves 3 or 4 times, should then hold OK.

 

I have a 6M Wilo Yonos Pico Pump, running fine and silent for the past 7 years.

[ProDave]

48 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Gravity system with a heat only boiler?

First check the header tank is not dry.

[jfb]

32 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Gravity system with a heat only boiler?

Thanks for the quick response Nick. I’m not a plumbing expert but I think it’s a gravity system!

The boiler does heating and feeds the hot water tank and there are a couple of tanks in the loft.

 

im a bit worried about how well the isolators will work as I know there’s already an old isolator in the hot water cupboard that doesn’t turn!

So im a little reluctant to have a go myself in case I can’t get the new one to fit properly. But it would be cheaper than getting someone in to do it!

[jfb]

11 minutes ago, ProDave said:

First check the header tank is not dry.

Just seen this. Ok I will do. Does that still influence whether the boiler will work for the heating if there is no call for hot water?

[marshian]

23 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

Gravity system with a heat only boiler?

 

I'm less of a fan of Grundfos these days, and am steering towards Wilo more often. The 5 means 5m head, 

 

 

I bought a DAB but since hearing what you can do with the head adjustment from @John Carroll if I ever have to replace it I'll go for Wilo

 

23 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

This one may suit your needs and should be available locally LINK

 

Drop in replacement

 

23 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

Hopefully the pump valves will hold well enough for a deft switch over, but expect them to not close fully.

 

I think I'd do the job properly - drain system down and replace the valves at the same time as the pump but that's because I'd want to give the valves the best chance next time the pump needs replacing 

 

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, marshian said:

I think I'd do the job properly - drain system down and replace the valves at the same time as the pump but that's because I'd want to give the valves the best chance next time the pump needs replacing

Yes, but what exactly is the point in fitting pump isolation valves, if you change them every time you change the pump?  May as well just hard plumb the pumps at that stage.

 

Worth seeing if they hold as it's a basement or summat by the look of it, so a few drops of water ain't gonna hurt, but the changeover will be a 30 min job.

[marshian]

21 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Yes, but what exactly is the point in fitting pump isolation valves, if you change them every time you change the pump?  May as well just hard plumb the pumps at that stage.

 

Worth seeing if they hold as it's a basement or summat by the look of it, so a few drops of water ain't gonna hurt, but the changeover will be a 30 min job.

 

I hear you but in my experience the pump valves have normally been in a heck of a lot longer than the current pump and are normally badgered

 

Time before last when I replaced a pump the valves were badgered and I did it with the acceptance of some water leakage

 

The next time I replace the pump I did pump and valves with a partial drain down - when that pump failed the valves held with the next pump replacement

 

Caveat - I've been in this house since 1991 so it not like I've burnt thro pumps

 

[Nickfromwales]

13 minutes ago, marshian said:

I hear you

Likewise, but these aren’t original-looking, old ass valves in the op.  

 

You know I’m like a dog with a bone so this one’s worth a bit of (maybe mis) adventure afaic. 
 

“What if they work?” 👀

[marshian]

7 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Likewise, but these aren’t original-looking, old ass valves in the op.  

 

You know I’m like a dog with a bone so this one’s worth a bit of (maybe mis) adventure afaic. 
 

“What if they work?” 👀

 

Yeah but they look a bit leaky!!!

 

Perhaps that's just me!!!

[Nickfromwales]

 

Not the stems, just the pump nuts. Also, brass doesn’t rust so it’s the pump that’s corroding not the valves. 
 

Very likely the original pump has those nasty rigid washers, not the modern, more compliant rubber ones.

 

Dog. 
 

Bone. 
 

🤣

[Nickfromwales]

@jfb

 

Get your wellies ready son, we’re going in…..

[marshian]

32 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

@jfb

 

Get your wellies ready son, we’re going in…..

 

Bucket and towels

 

Leave the spade for the beach

[Nickfromwales]

8 minutes ago, marshian said:

 

Bucket and towels

 

Leave the spade for the beach

The spade is for me to dig my own hole, if the house floods when he pulls the pump out   

[Onoff]

I'd give the pump threads and washer faces a good smear of Jet Blue Plus.

 

Each to their own on goopy tub stuff but it's my goto. I use it mainly on compression fittings and find I don't need PTFE tape. The stuff stops that horrible brass squeak noise, let's you nip a bit tighter and fills any little voids, it's just wonderful. No more weepy joints here. 

[Nickfromwales]

6 hours ago, Onoff said:

I'd give the pump threads and washer faces a good smear of Jet Blue Plus.

 

Each to their own on goopy tub stuff but it's my goto. I use it mainly on compression fittings and find I don't need PTFE tape. The stuff stops that horrible brass squeak noise, let's you nip a bit tighter and fills any little voids, it's just wonderful. No more weepy joints here. 

Now I’m the complete opposite. 
 

Yes to putting something on the threads, but I always clean the mating faces and that allows the rubber to have friction. This otherwise, in the hands of someone not doing this day in day out, can lead to the rubber just being displaced and ending up in the centre of the fitting doing feck all.

 

Threads yes, mating faces clean and dry for me. 

[jfb]

Glad my pump woes are generating such a lively conversation!
 

good news - managed to swap over the pump fine. No leaky isolators, all went well. Thanks chaps.

 

bad news - similar problem, boiler fires up on demand and quickly gets too hot on flow pipe and my boiler (Vailant ecotec plus 415) comes up with F72 error (flow and/or return NTC fault). Ran the auto bleed function on the WILO for 15 minutes, tried with the circuit isolators (silver boxes - don’t know actual name!) manually opened, same result. Pump seems to be running fine just no flow from the boiler.

Spoke to Vailant and their technical support said the F72 error meant the problem was external to the boiler.

Spoke to plumber (too busy to come out but happy to do a video call while I was trying to get it working) and he said most likely an airlock or maybe sludge build up (though most of the rads were changed a few years back).

Spoke to the gas safety check people (who came on Monday for the yearly checkup and reckoned it was most likely the pump) and they have suggested draining, changing a bit of pipe work (more below), filling with cleaner and circulating for a couple days, drain again and fill with inhibitor.

 

the pipe work that they thought needed changing I presume is the ‘u’ section you can just make out in the pics (close up on second pic) on the return pipe work next to the boiler. He reckoned that was an airlock liability and I presume the plan would be to run a ‘t’ straight across to the main return pipe from the down pipe and getting rid of the ‘u’

 

does that sound like a reasonable plan?

 

Pics in next post

 

[jfb]

[marshian]

1 hour ago, jfb said:

Glad my pump woes are generating such a lively conversation!
 

good news - managed to swap over the pump fine. No leaky isolators, all went well. Thanks chaps.

 

bad news - similar problem, boiler fires up on demand and quickly gets too hot on flow pipe and my boiler (Vailant ecotec plus 415) comes up with F72 error (flow and/or return NTC fault). Ran the auto bleed function on the WILO for 15 minutes, tried with the circuit isolators (silver boxes - don’t know actual name!) manually opened, same result. Pump seems to be running fine just no flow from the boiler.

Spoke to Vailant and their technical support said the F72 error meant the problem was external to the boiler.

Spoke to plumber (too busy to come out but happy to do a video call while I was trying to get it working) and he said most likely an airlock or maybe sludge build up (though most of the rads were changed a few years back).

Spoke to the gas safety check people (who came on Monday for the yearly checkup and reckoned it was most likely the pump) and they have suggested draining, changing a bit of pipe work (more below), filling with cleaner and circulating for a couple days, drain again and fill with inhibitor.

 

the pipe work that they thought needed changing I presume is the ‘u’ section you can just make out in the pics (close up on second pic) on the return pipe work next to the boiler. He reckoned that was an airlock liability and I presume the plan would be to run a ‘t’ straight across to the main return pipe from the down pipe and getting rid of the ‘u’

 

does that sound like a reasonable plan?

 

Pics in next post

 

 

I'll get shot for suggesting this but....................

 

1. You did open the isolation valves up after fitting the pump?

 

2. You did bleed the pump after fitting (centre screw loosen it to allow the air out - they don't pump air at all well

 

3. Are you sure the isolation valves actually opened

 

I'll get me coat

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, marshian said:

 

I'll get shot for suggesting this but....................

 

1. You did open the isolation valves up after fitting the pump?

 

2. You did bleed the pump after fitting (centre screw loosen it to allow the air out - they don't pump air at all well

 

3. Are you sure the isolation valves actually opened

 

I'll get me coat

You'd be shot if you didn't, ma' man....

 

2 hours ago, jfb said:

they have suggested draining, changing a bit of pipe work

How long has this worked for, to date, without issue?

[jfb]

1 hour ago, marshian said:

I'll get shot for suggesting this but....................

 

1. You did open the isolation valves up after fitting the pump?

 

2. You did bleed the pump after fitting (centre screw loosen it to allow the air out - they don't pump air at all well

 

3. Are you sure the isolation valves actually opened

1.Yes I did open them.

2. auto bleed button pressed and on for a while

3. Well, I’m not sure how to answer that so I guess no. I didn’t test that when I had the pump off, maybe I should have. But the isolators seemed to twist shut and open nicely.

[marshian]

10 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

You'd be shot if you didn't, ma' man....

 

Sometimes it's easy to miss the obvious - I had a gate valve fall apart internally (cold feed to my loft tank - took me ages work out why the tank used to take bloody ages to fill up after a bath - only after a lot of trial an error and checks did I find it wasn't fully open)  another reason why I bloody hate gate valves and why I replace them at the same time as a pump if they been a long time

 

10 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

How long has this worked for, to date, without issue?

 

Good point well made

 

If it's air locked there opening a drain under the boiler (if it has one might encourage the air to escape (or cracking the union on the ope of the boiler (more towels)

[jfb]

12 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

How long has this worked for, to date, without issue?

Boiler probably replaced 10 years ago, old leaky rads replaced for new less than two years ago, no real issue since last week

[marshian]

3 minutes ago, jfb said:

1.Yes I did open them.

2. auto bleed button pressed and on for a while

3. Well, I’m not sure how to answer that so I guess no. I didn’t test that when I had the pump off, maybe I should have. But the isolators seemed to twist shut and open nicely.

 

1 - Good

2. What the heck is one of them - picture of the pump please or did you mean an auto bleed above the pump in the pipework somewhere?

3. Hmmm - we'll leave that one to one side for now