Going to refuse

[Bluebaron]

Just been given a heads up that the LPA are going to refuse my application, 

 

Main concern is “cramped and overbearing contrary to policy”, few other bits but I think this is only to provide a bit of weight. 

 

so I’m guessing rather than withdraw the application (deadline Friday) and resubmit I would be better waiting for refusal and submitting an appeal with amended drawings? 
 

[Daniel H]

Sorry to hear this.

 

You could get in touch with them to ask if there is any negotiation to be done? In that case you could see if you could submit new drawings to respond to their concerns and therefore save yourself the expense of a new planning application fee (which went up in April). 

 

They might say no, however (ours did). In that case you'll need to put in a new application.

 

Check the policy - if you're definitely contrary to it I'd suggest not appealing, but if you think they've overplayed their hand you might want to put in an appeal while you get on with a fresh application. Cramped and overbearing are quite subjective in the absence of specific guidance so an Inspector might take a different line if you can offer some evidence to support your case.

[Bluebaron]

Thanks Daniel,

 

They said the following in  an email today,

 

“For the reasons outlined above, the application is not considered acceptable and will be refused. The formal decision notice will detail the full reasons for refusal. However, should the applicant wish to withdraw the current application, they may consider seeking pre-application advice prior to submitting a revised proposal.”

 

Does that mean I can withdraw it, amend the plans and resubmit for no fee?

 

 

[Daniel H]

It's not clear to me. My understanding was that the "free go" (or free resubmission) for planning applications in England was removed for applications submitted after 6 December 2023. This change means you will generally have to pay a new fee if your application is refused, withdrawn, or approved. I think you pay both ways...

 

The question is whether you get more information out of them by letting them refuse it - they have to give you very clear reasons and you can use those next time to build a stronger application. At the pre-app stage they don't have to be as detailed. 

 

Not sure as I don't have the details but you might want the refusal so you know what to do next time and b) you could appeal it if you think it's nonsense and c) it messes up their stats and d) they should do some work for the money you paid them. 

[DevilDamo]

What is the application for?
 

There is no such thing as a free go anymore. Any revised application will attract a new application.

 

Wait for the formal determination and address the reasons for refusal along with the additional information within the Officers’ Report. Then decide whether to re-submit or Appeal. In my opinion, a pre-application enquiry wouldn’t be of any benefit as the Officers’ Report should provide you with enough information.

[Bluebaron]

Im hoping to chat with the case officer tomorrow. 

reading between the lines I’m hoping it’s a case of “you’re pretty much there just tweak a few things”.

hence the quote above regarding withdrawing it.

 

[DevilDamo]

17 minutes ago, Bluebaron said:

reading between the lines I’m hoping it’s a case of “you’re pretty much there just tweak a few things”.

If your positive interpretation of that will help, then so be it. They would have suggested “minor” amendments if it would result in an approval. 

[mr rusty]

cynical me thinks they are going to refuse on thin grounds and are trying to stop you going straight to appeal.... Why withdraw it otherwise?

[Alan Ambrose]

>>> cramped and overbearing

 

That's a weird combination - doesn't 'overbearing' suggest too big for the plot / compared to its neighbours.

 

And 'cramped' suggests too small or maybe lots of small rooms?

 

At least it says .... "submit a revised proposal" - which suggests that they are happy for something to be built there.

 

I think I would try to get them to tell me what this mysterious thing is that they have in mind. Sometimes I think we should just let the planners design the houses instead of playing this ridiculous guessing game.

[torre]

Maybe by 'cramped' they mean it's too large for the plot, squeezed in, and then it's consequently 'overbearing' on neighbours?

 

If the planners are open to discussing your application, you could suggest agreeing an extension to give you time to submit updated drawings if they think the reasons for refusal are addressable (without hurting their stats)

 

If you withdraw, you'll lose the opportunity to get full details of their reasons for refusal, which may be a bit thin in which case consider and appeal, or be substantial and with merit in which case at least you'll know exactly what obstacles you face next time around.

[Big Jimbo]

Cramped, will refer to the building or extension, in relation to the site. Not the sizes of the rooms. As above, there is no free go anymore. Best of luck with trying to get a conversation with a planning officer. If you do, then try and record the call.

[Bluebaron]

Thanks all, 

 

I’ve spoken with the LPA and they stated that overall there’s a good chance of success in planning. 

She stated that we failed to submit any updates following consultee concerns. Mainly the tree/highways reports requested clarification on a few points. 
it’s annoying as I pointed this out to my agent and he emailed them asking if they needed it pre deadline but received no reply.

They also wanted a water neutrality statement, pre deadline, but again there was nothing to suggest this is a pre planning requirement and we assumed could be added as a condition of planning. (I have even had the report on my desk ready to go for 6 weeks).

Regarding cramped and overbearing I’ve accepted I maximised the house but it similar in size and look to surrounding properties but I concede is a bit tight on the plot. (Didn’t help that again my agent added the wrong rear boundary line/division of plots) I suggested to my agent that we lose the front left top corner (see below) to soften it a bit leaving the footprint the same. This will add a lot to build costs though as more complex roof.
 

the full report is due tomorrow so, as stated, above will be like a pre-app and provide more guidance on resubmission.

 

i have a planning guy who wants to charge me £3200+vat to redo it but I’m wondering if its worth it as im so close already?
 

Edited Thursday at 12:10 by Bluebaron

[torre]

33 minutes ago, Bluebaron said:

She stated that we failed to submit any updates following consultee concerns. Mainly the tree/highways reports requested clarification on a few points. 
it’s annoying as I pointed this out to my agent and he emailed them asking if they needed it pre deadline but received no reply.

 

Sounds like your agent has dropped the ball here, how would waiting until after a deadline make any sense!?

 

[Bluebaron]

I think his thinking was they would just add a condition to the planning saying “subject highway concerns being addressed” . 
 

He/we didn’t consider it to be a request for information before a decision could be made.

[Mr Punter]

They will often agree to extend the determination date if you suggest it.

[Bluebaron]

Tried that but told no too late in process. 

[Daniel H]

Ah, that's frustrating. But all seems fixable for next time - no real showstopper, hopefully.

[Conor]

I think you are too tight to the LHS boundary. Do you have access to the plot from the back? If not, once you have footings in, it's going to be hard to get materials and plant round to the back. Where are you going to store materials during the build? Site toilet etc etc? Need to think a bit about constructability.

[Bluebaron]

Yes I have full rear access and own the plot next door. The LHS is bordered with a local park.