Posi joist - This install feels rubbish, thoughts?

[Mr Punter]

I am no expert on these things, but from the photos, the welding is awful, some of the bearings look off centre but may be within tolerances and the top end of the pozis are awaiting some angled hangers to correctly secure them.  Get your SE to look at this and give their professional opinion.

[boxrick]

Cheers for the help and thoughts guys. Got my SE and Pasquill ( roof manufacturer ) coming tomorrow.

 

I've made the builder cease and spoke to some folks today to help me get straight  again. Also have some other potential avenues to get water tight.

 

I'll await these reports then I'll crack on from there.

 

[Gus Potter]

On 26/07/2025 at 12:19, Nickfromwales said:

has this steel just been destroyed by the undercut and diminished web?

Pretty much to say the least. Sometimes you can get away with notching the bottom flange and stiffen it properly.. but not that much!

[Gus Potter]

49 minutes ago, boxrick said:

Cheers for the help and thoughts guys.

All the best... but prepare for bad news. On the upside at least you caught it now before anyone got hurt.

 

Keep us posted. 

 

 

[bmj1]

Great attitude. You'll be fine. Good luck.

[Tony L]

Well done.  You're managing this situation well.  Keep us updated.  I'm following with interest, as I had similar problems with my first builder (& I'm still only just out of the ground with my build).  I also had to defend myself against threats from his solicitor, so don't be surprised or concerned if that's your builder's next move.  He will concede once he realises that you're more capable & robust than his usual clients.

[boxrick]

I am currently waiting for Structural Engineer to share a report.

But Pasquill gave me quite a comprehensive email but in summary:

They have confirmed that the main issue on my site is that the steel valley beams have been set in the wrong position and at the wrong angle, they should not go through the internal corner as built and need offsetting a little this means the pitch is out by one degree. This has also caused the problems with the fascia and soffit lines.

Pasquill say the Posi rafters already fitted may still usable if the beams are moved to the correct positions, though if any hidden cuts are worse than visible they may need replacing.

If I do decide to replace the 12 rafters sitting on the valley, Pasquill have offered to supply new ones at a very reasonable price for me ( Which I have said yes to ).

The next step is to fully dismiss the builder, take ownership of site. I have found a good joiner to come sort the posis, and will just await the SE to give me a plan of action for these steels.  

[Kelvin]

Good stuff. Progress and plan is emerging. Everything keeps moving forward when you take action. 

[Mr Punter]

Good to see Pasquill stepping up on this.  Well done them and @boxrick.

[bmj1]

Agreed, great job by Pasquill, and by you also. This isn't easy.

 

We're all backing you - keep posting any questions as you go and we'll all help where we can.

[Nickfromwales]

Pasquill have defo stepped up to the plate.
 

Kudos to them and their aftercare/customer support. 

[Gus Potter]

On 30/07/2025 at 19:56, boxrick said:

But Pasquill gave me quite a comprehensive email but in summary:

Pasquill have a bit of history for me. Years ago, about 30-35 years,  I dabbled (when I was a builder before I reinvented mysefl as an SE) in roof truss manufacture, posi joists were not on the market then.

 

Pasquill used to be a "competitor" as a local Scottish business. Both of us held the Mitek software licence. The owner of Pasquill sold on a great business with a lot of good staff. I met him on and off and was a straight up guy, bloody hard nosed mind.. like Yorkshire folk.  Pasquill at the time were straight up folk, they had one or two fantastic timber engineers, .. it's ok to be a good Engineer but if you can't pay your way then your long term job prospects are not so good. 

 

Great to see they have kept the founder's ethos and stepped up to the plate on this one. Nice bit of nostagia for me. 

[boxrick]

I met the builder on site yesterday and to date he has not apologised once for this roof mess he is still blaming Pasquill etc, despite that when things were unclear all he needed to do was stop. 

I put to him about just walking away, ill take on the responsibility (costs) of fixing this roof and bear the cost we shake hands and finish it and he can walk away. But he constantly keeps shifting blame to me, saying he can put it right, guilt me etc. There have been changes, but often to resolve him ignoring architect notes or drawings. The only significant change is changing from a raised tie truss roof to a vaulted roof. If you search my recent posts here, you will see a small selection of what I have tried to fix.

Regardless here are some final messages which appeared at 6am this morning to share what I am dealing with, the constant mental gymnastics going on here is screwing with my head. 

Edited August 1 by Nickfromwales

[Kelvin]

The forum is publicly searchable so I’d remove that post given the direction this could be going in. If the post is locked ask a moderator to remove it.  
 

The fact is that the manufacturer of the joists has given you a comprehensive list of what’s wrong and highlighted some of the joists may need replacing. Your SE is also going to write you a summary of the issues. You can also demonstrate that the as built doesn’t match the as designed. This can happen with building sometimes but the solutions need to be carefully thought through and considered. This hasn’t happened. Consequently you are now in this position. The builder can argue that there are mitigating reasons for this but ultimately they have done the work which isn’t to an acceptable standard or even potentially safe. Given all of that it’s unlikely the quality of the rest of the job will be acceptable. Trust has gone. This isn’t a good position for you to be in for the rest of the build. 

 

 

I fired two of the trades that we were using. Wasn’t easy but the quality wasn’t good enough and they weren’t capable of doing any better. I didn’t have a contract with either of them though so your situation is slightly harder. 

Edited August 1 by Kelvin

[G and J]

Have you got the SE report yet? This will hopefully provide an objective view of the situation.

 

What does the rest of the contract cover, terms etc. Are there any clear specs that you can reference that they haven't done e.g I think material below damp was incorrect?

 

It's hard, but try to keep factual (even though emotions are raging).

[bmj1]

What is your contract with the builder ? Is it a standard form (e.g. JCT), the builder's standard terms, or verbal ? Please do feel free to post a copy here (with any personal and company details redacted), and I think we'll be able to advise much better.

[boxrick]

See contract with any details omitted here.
Ill hopefully be getting SE report soon and rectification, since we are now going to address a few further issues and get the steel completely finalised. 

 ommited.pdf

Edited August 1 by boxrick

[saveasteading]

2 hours ago, Kelvin said:

your situation is slightly harder

I don't agree. If there is a recognised formal contract turn the remedies and procedures are laid out, and that is something less to sort out.

 

2 hours ago, Kelvin said:

fired two of the trades 

It is hard, and they may be difficult with you. Stay strong and it gets sorted. Don't pay. Keep notes of all discussions.

 

Remember that this guy purports to be competent and took the work on. If there were changes or difficulties he should have stopped and discussed thrm, not charged on. He is the builder so is responsible. 

Under any contract, formal or informal, you must give him the chance to remedy, promptly and properly, which it seems you have done, and then the next stage is sacking,  and evaluating any monies due in either direction.

 

[Kelvin]

Of course but a contract works both ways and the builder is already setting up his side. 

[saveasteading]

OK. Clause 12 is clear

Contractor has the obligation to provide a high quality outcome for the works which are required to meet or even exceed the Client’s expectations.

 

Later it says adjudication is the next stage, but if the builder is refusing reasonable discussion then that is redundant and clause 3u is clear enough: written notice by you, 14 days, contract terminated.

[boxrick]

Here are my thoughts of a message / email:

I want to make my position fully clear and address some points about documentation and changes to plans.

Throughout the project, whenever plans or specifications have changed, I have made you aware as early as possible and shared all updated documentation without delay. Any differences from previous versions were always clearly highlighted, and I sent emails to confirm and explain these changes.
 

On several occasions I also noticed you were working from outdated plans or documents, and I pulled this up immediately to prevent further mistakes. To ensure there was no confusion, I paid my architect to update plans professionally, and I shared these updated documents with you at the earliest opportunity.

Additional works from these I have bore the payment for, and I have never asked for any favours or reductions in cost for genuine mistakes or additional work you had to undertake.

Any changes as you highlighted are often you just not working to the architects specifications, and the majority of these items have never changed.
 

In addition to the previously mentioned issues with the roof, DPM and insulation, there have been other significant problems on site, including:

• Charging me for remedial work required due to your own errors, some of which is still unresolved and now my responsibility to fix.

• Knocking down a wall by mistake and then charging me for rebuilding it.

• Poor quality blockwork and general workmanship.

• Building walls in incorrect locations, which I had to raise and have corrected.

• Failing to prepare for the DNO electricity main relocation despite multiple warnings, causing delays and extra cost.

• Improper installation of the water meter, which I then had to have rectified last minute at my own expense.

• Failing to secure the site, with scaffolding left open and untagged, and put onto a neighbour’s land without permission and all over the pavement without the permission of the pavement owners.

These are not minor snags but ongoing breaches and poor practices, despite my efforts to provide accurate, timely information.

I have comprehensive pictures at every stage and am happy to share as needed.
 

Given all of this:
 

I will take full responsibility for the roof works from now on. You will have no further involvement or liability for the roof. It is just too important and I need to have full confidence it is built to a high standard
We can proceed with the brick works as quoted, paid on satisfactory completion only.

Once those works are complete, I will re evaluate and decide how or if we continue with any further work.

I trust this sets out my position. Please confirm you understand and agree, or let me know if you wish to discuss anything further.
 

Regards,
Rick

Edited August 1 by boxrick

[Mr Punter]

I don't expect you will be going for drinks with him any time soon.

 

So you are leaving them to do the brickwork only?  You will still need scaffolding up to do the roof.  It may be simpler just to part ways now, but you know him and the project better than we do.

[saveasteading]

2 hours ago, boxrick said:

We can proceed with the brick works as quoted, paid on satisfactory completion only.

Once those works are complete, I will re evaluate and decide how or if we continue with any further work.

This is strange. The relationship will be awful. You donr trust them. Different contractors will clash. Better to part ways now.

 

2 hours ago, boxrick said:

despite my efforts to provide accurate, timely information.

sounds a bit like taking some blame/  delete?

[Tony L]

2 hours ago, boxrick said:

You will have no further involvement or liability for the roof.

 

Don't say this until you know the cost of correcting the work is a lot less than the amount he's going to say you owe him.  If he's going to get nasty with you, your starting point for negotiation should be: He's broken the contract, by consistently undertaking poor quality work & overcharging, so you're going to force him to pay a competent builder to undertake the required remedial works, because he has demonstrated over the course of several weeks, he's incapable of doing the work to an adequate standard himself.

[boxrick]

16 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

This is strange. The relationship will be awful. You donr trust them. Different contractors will clash. Better to part ways now.

 

sounds a bit like taking some blame/  delete?

No one is faultless, there has been changes in plans and he has dealt with me amicably. But I have done my best to mitigate this by letting him know immediately and providing updated plans and drawings.

It shouldn't excuse him for the current shoddy work. But if I am raising any dispute, I think I have to provide clear examples of where has let me down to show that this was the last straw. 

I have just taken ownership of the scaffolding, got them to come and inspect it / tag it. And have paid for a further 2 weeks so thats all up-to-date and just sorted site insurance. So regardless hopefully I am a little more covered as I progress. 

Edited August 1 by boxrick