Roofing work - Should I pay?

[tvrulesme]

Looking for a bit of advice. I'm in the process of renovating an old listed building. Doing as much of the work myself as I can which I really enjoy, but getting in trades when I think something is above me (or the law dictates i.e. electrics).

 

I put out detailed job specs on some of the big tradespeople sites, invite 3 or 4 to quote, compare the quotes, check the reviews and hire one. I don't haggle over the price (as I always wonder what they are cutting out), I pay the day the job finishes or the day after. I'm a decent client but want things done right.

 

Just had some roofing work completed. Small job:

• Installation of timber fascia boards, guttering, drip edge and grp raised edge to a 12.5m2 flat roof
• Installation of a bespoke abutment vent Laying Fibreglass matting and resin and finishing with a GRP topcoat  

There were very detailed specs sent through, I hired one of the people who quoted (not the cheapest). I am very very unhappy with the quality of the work. Pictures attached so you can see the "finish" of the leadwork, fascia boards, and timber framing around etc.

For the very first time ever, I don't want to pay. Putting right the work that these guys did is going to be expensive. They have damaged old real slate tiles. Lots of their work, if not all, will need to be ripped up, disposed of and started again. The "roofer" wants to come back and put things right but I have utterly lost trust in a person that would consider this a finish they are happy with and send over an invoice for the full amount. I'd rather get someone else in.

My questions are:

• Am I the ar$ehole here? Is the work really not that bad?
• Should I offer to pay for materials (approx £550 if my calculations are correct) knowing that a lot of those materials will need to be pulled up and thrown away?
• How would you move forward?

Interested to get the perspective of the pros on here as it's very easy to get the other side (take him to court blah blah) 

 

[Nickfromwales]

It looks like Edward Scissorhands did this after his Parkinsons was fully developed......

 

That's shocking 'carpentry' and the leadwork is 'not great'.

 

Some more pics, but not so close up, would be good.

[tvrulesme]

19 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

It looks like Edward Scissorhands did this after his Parkinsons was fully developed......

 

That's shocking 'carpentry' and the leadwork is 'not great'.

 

Some more pics, but not so close up, would be good.

My photography is about as good as the carpentry. Apologies.

Here's a few more showing the slate vent they installed (not in the middle because they couldn't be bothered to modify the rafters) where a lot of the old slates have been butchered, completely unneccessary joins on the fascia and resin leakage over the fascia they didn't bother to tidy up.

[nod]

The majority of people on theses site are jobbers Cowboys They are actually buying the leads weather they get the work or not Most trades are booked up These guys will start the following days 

and the references are made up Usually family and friends 

[Jenki]

13 minutes ago, tvrulesme said:

Here's a few more showing the slate vent they installed (not in the middle because they couldn't be bothered to modify the rafters)

That's probably the best thing they did for you, you wouldn't modify a rafter for a vent.

 

The Timber work is poor, GRP messy. not great

[Mr Punter]

It is an awful looking job.

 

There are lots of photos of bits you will not normally see.  I would want all the unpainted timber ends to be properly coated to protect them.  Smarten up the grp.  Leadwork looks rough but is hopefully keeping the rain out.  Make sure everything is secure and properly fixed.

 

I agree with @Jenki that nobody would try to move a rafter on an existing roof to get a vent tile central.

[tvrulesme]

1 minute ago, Mr Punter said:

It is an awful looking job.

 

There are lots of photos of bits you will not normally see.  I would want all the unpainted timber ends to be properly coated to protect them.  Smarten up the grp.  Leadwork looks rough but is hopefully keeping the rain out.  Make sure everything is secure and properly fixed.

 

I agree with @Jenki that nobody would try to move a rafter on an existing roof to get a vent tile central.

 

Thanks @Mr Punter. I hired a "roofer" for this job to lean on their expertise and advise on things like this. Problem here is that the quality of work is so bad I didn't trust him when he said that. 

Will put a centred vent out of my mind. I'm far more worried about the lovely old slates which have been decimated. They are supposed to have been neatly trimmed around the vent

[Mr Punter]

12 minutes ago, nod said:

These guys will start the following days 

and the references are made up Usually family and friends

 

True although I got lucky recently and found a couple of guys to do some rendering from seeing them on another job still working at 6:30PM last Tuesday.  Very keen price for the location.  CIS registered.  Got on with the job on Saturday, Sunday and this morning and they are popping back this Saturday to finish up.  Albanian and Afghani.

 

Before:

 

After:

 

[tvrulesme]

@Mr Punter Looking good, but I don't want to ask what this is hiding behind the door

[ToughButterCup]

21 hours ago, tvrulesme said:

...

• Should I offer to pay for materials (approx £550 if my calculations are correct) knowing that a lot of those materials will need to be pulled up and thrown away?
• How would you move forward?

...

 

 

No. But pay something - I'd feel like £200 is enough.

List the problems in detail.

Get a (proper) estimate from a builder on how much it'll cost to put it right. Not just a 'sound-of-air-being-sucked-through-teeth quote' ( Because the original builder will think you're lying) 

 

Show that estimate to your 'builder'

Negotiate.

 

The workmanship is  dreadful. 

 

 

 

[tvrulesme]

23 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

 

 

No. But pay something - I'd feel like £200 is enough.

List the problems in detail.

Get a (proper) estimate from a builder on how much it'll cost to put it right. Not just a 'sound-of-air-being-sucked-through-teeth quote' ( Because the original builder will think you're lying) 

 

Show that estimate to your 'builder'

Negotiate.

 

The workmanship is  dreadful. 

 

 

 

 

Thank you @ToughButterCup. So I sent a very very extensive list of all the issues as soon as he sent the invoice. 

I was thinking this over last night and here's what i have done which I think is fair.

1. I got a list of all materials (£503.50)
2. I subtracted all materials which they had damaged or would need to be removed as part of remediation (Code 4 Lead, Some of the Timber, GRP edging which differed from what I specified (£180.34)
3. I subtracted a list of materials I have had to buy to replace things they damaged so far (£131.57)

 

Transferred over to his account this morning £191.59 and sent him a detailed breakdown explaining exactly what I had done. I specifically said I refuse to pay for labour given the quality of the work and have noted that this is a full and final settlement, that I won't be returning to request funds for as yet unknown damage and waived the guarantee he was due to send on payment. 

The guy was working on his own the first day and with his brother in law the following day so at worst it's just lost revenue in labour and an uncomfortable family discussion for him. I'll also not be writing any reviews which would have been damaging. 

 

Personally I think this feels about right but happy to be shot down

 

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

It’s as good as it’s going to get I’d say.

 

Let’s see how he responds.