Visibility splay

[flanagaj]

So I have purchased the report and it does show Hampshire CC do own the section of verge.  I sent the plan showing this to the architects to ask them whether the visibility splays do sit within the HCC owned map and none of the splay crosses land owned by the neighbour.  A highway consultant (was very helpful) informed me that so long as the visibility splay sits within HCC owned land, then any hedging that sits within that can be ordered to be cut back via a enforcement notice.  This then means that we don't have to worry about the condition as it can always be resolved, where as the visibility splay crossing the neighbours land / hedge is outside our control.

 

I am also requesting the architects raise the issue of the visibility splay being requested to the edge of the carriageway, as it is an unclassified road which is only 7ft wide, so definitely single lane.  This apparently means the visibility splay is taken to the centre of the carriageway and not the edge.   I have told the architects to push to have the condition removed.   

[flanagaj]

  On 20/03/2025 at 08:59, ProDave said:

Then I would tell your architect that any revised plans MUST uses that long established access, and his job is to make a layout work using that access before you go to planning again.

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I don't want the original access.  Surely before embarking on a scheme for a client, they should have done the necessary due diligence to ensure access is viable? 

 

 

 

  On 20/03/2025 at 08:47, Blooda said:

You need to consult the Highways Definitive Map.  

They will send you a map with Highways [inc verges] highlighting what they are responsible maintaining for [not own, as you may own the road up to the centre... but that is whole different situation].

 

Highway records - Wiltshire Council

 

£37.10  for a check. 

 

We had a similar situation, we purchased our land with outline planning permission [access only].  And the first thing our architect did was check that the visibility splays as defined in the planning permission, were only above Highways Maintained Land.  The highways are defining the splay, therefore if the obstruction is on their maintained land, you are ok.  They will of course say they are not responsible for cutting the hedge [££] but would have no objections.   

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I did this yesterday and the result is below (glad I paid for the 20 day turnaround and not the express 5 day turnaround.  Got the results in an hour and saved > £200).   The tricky part is translating the splays across the area in pink to deduce whether the splays sit outside the pink.  I suspect they do, given that you have to measure back 2.4m from the edge of the verge for where the splay starts.  I can do some basic trig to work out the distance of the splay when we cross to the neighbours boundary.

Edited March 21 by flanagaj

[ProDave]

I would go onto your site with some string and stakes and physically mark out where the new entrance is going to go and use the string to mark out on the ground where the visibility splay falls.

 

That will show once and for all if the neighbours hedge needs a haircut or not and hopefully show that is all that is needed and it does not encroach into your neighbours garden.

 

If that is the case you are good to go.  Well done for getting confirmation of ownership and you have the documentation now to argue the case if anyone raises a concern when you go back to planning.

 

Also argue the point of where the visibility splay ends, ours is a 3 metre wide single track road and the specification was to a point in the middle of the road 60 metres from the entrance.  The distance will vary with the sped limit on the road.

[flanagaj]

  On 21/03/2025 at 08:49, ProDave said:

I would go onto your site with some string and stakes and physically mark out where the new entrance is going to go and use the string to mark out on the ground where the visibility splay falls.

 

That will show once and for all if the neighbours hedge needs a haircut or not and hopefully show that is all that is needed and it does not encroach into your neighbours garden.

 

If that is the case you are good to go.  Well done for getting confirmation of ownership and you have the documentation now to argue the case if anyone raises a concern when you go back to planning.

 

Also argue the point of where the visibility splay ends, ours is a 3 metre wide single track road and the specification was to a point in the middle of the road 60 metres from the entrance.  The distance will vary with the sped limit on the road.

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Yes.  I think a trip up to the site is required this weekend to mark things out.   Although the road is unclassified and theoretically a 60mph road it's a non through lane and they have requested a 43m splay as is required for a 30mph road.  Interesting that yours was to the centre of the carriage way and ours was to the road edge?

[flanagaj]

The new entrance is as below.  I have just calculated the distance from the road to the splay at the point we cross the neighbours boundary and it's 1.8m.  Looking at the image below 1.8m is not possible.

 

[ProDave]

What about if you measure to the middle of the road?

[flanagaj]

  On 21/03/2025 at 11:17, ProDave said:

What about if you measure to the middle of the road?

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I still think it will be tight.

[Blooda]

Can you extract the exact measurement of the width of the pink highway from the PDF the highways sent you ?

As others have said get down there with string.  

When we built ours, the grass verge was growing over 1 ft on the tarmac and the hedge was closer to the road than the verge.  

You can then measure.

 

Have you had a traffic survey done?  This will give you the average speed of vehicles and potentially give you grounds for using the 85th percentile speed of traffic.  should it be less than 60 MPH  

 

 

  

[flanagaj]

  On 21/03/2025 at 16:06, Blooda said:

Can you extract the exact measurement of the width of the pink highway from the PDF the highways sent you ?

As others have said get down there with string.  

When we built ours, the grass verge was growing over 1 ft on the tarmac and the hedge was closer to the road than the verge.  

You can then measure.

 

Have you had a traffic survey done?  This will give you the average speed of vehicles and potentially give you grounds for using the 85th percentile speed of traffic.  should it be less than 60 MPH  

 

 

  

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The told me the scale is  1:1250 but on an A4 printed sheet that scale will be very difficult to get an accurate measurement.  I did consider a traffic survey, but unfortunately, there are local residents who drive far too fast down the lane.  When I drive down it 20mph is fast enough.  So not sure a traffic survey would go in our favour.

[ProDave]

  On 21/03/2025 at 22:02, flanagaj said:

The told me the scale is  1:1250 but on an A4 printed sheet that scale will be very difficult to get an accurate measurement

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You need to find something you know the distance of like the width of your plot and scale from that to work out the actual scale.

[flanagaj]

  On 21/03/2025 at 22:31, ProDave said:

You need to find something you know the distance of like the width of your plot and scale from that to work out the actual scale.

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Yes.  Great idea.  Hadn't considered that option.   Thanks

[flanagaj]

I did that and according to the shading on the document I posted, it extends 2m back from the road verge.  If that is correct (seems a lot), then the visibility splay is within the bounds of the verge owned by Hampshire CC and therefore I don't need to be concerned as any hedging that resides in that space can be asked to be cut back.   I have asked the architects to double check my conclusion and if it is correct, ask Highways to remove the condition from the PP. 

Edited March 22 by flanagaj

[ProDave]

Excellent news.  I would peg it out on the ground with a length of rope and take photographs to show how much of which hedge might need a trim.

 

I guess the thing here is not really needing to actually go and trim the hedges, but to get the condition removed from planning, and to know if the hedges are left to grow too close to the road, you can get them trimmed.

 

 

[flanagaj]

  On 23/03/2025 at 09:33, ProDave said:

but to get the condition removed from planning, and to know if the hedges are left to grow too close to the road, you can get them trimmed.

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Exactly.  I am going to put a case forward that the condition be removed, especially as the responsibility for keeping the splay in line with the Highway condition lies with Hampshire CC alone. 

[Blooda]

If you load the PDF into Adobe Acrobat [free version]  you should be able to use the measuring tool.

 

 

Grids, guides, and measurements in PDFs, Adobe Acrobat

 

 

 

[kandgmitchell]

  On 19/03/2025 at 12:01, flanagaj said:

"Before the development is brought into use, the means of vehicular access to the site shall be constructed in accordance with the approved plan (Drg No.24-WLC-PA-10) and no structure, erection or planting exceeding 1.0m in height shall thereafter be placed within the visibility splays shown on the approved plans."

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Why bother with an application to get the condition removed (they will not do it informally) when you seem confident that you can comply? If, and it's a big if, anyone ever queries it then be prepared to peg it out again to demonstrate compliance.

[flanagaj]

  On 25/03/2025 at 09:58, kandgmitchell said:

Why bother with an application to get the condition removed (they will not do it informally) when you seem confident that you can comply? If, and it's a big if, anyone ever queries it then be prepared to peg it out again to demonstrate compliance.

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Because I don't want any ambiguity regarding how much of the verge is owned by Hampshire CC.  According to the diagram they provided, it looks like it is 2m, but that seems a lot.  If I request the condition is removed, Hampshire CC Highways will either agree with our observation and say "Yes, we own all of the land in the splay" or no, the condition cannot be removed as we don't own the land in the required splay.