Are some snots and caps a problem on the inside of a new brick wall?

[Bounce]

51 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

Is this an extension or a new house. 
if it’s a new house then stop work now and get this stuff sorted out. 

Extension to an existing house. We bought it about 2 years ago, but not lived in it yet, waiting until it's fully completed. The builders have done the extension to a close friends house about 5 years ago, and done all the internals, including plumbing, electrics etc and were happy with it. From what we've seen, we also thought ok. But now we are analysing everything and wanting to ensure everything is done properly. 

[Conor]

5 hours ago, Bounce said:

There is a gap here due to the insulation from a cross section pushing against this piece. 

I'm assuming that the brickwork in this pic is the external skin and the blocks are the inside? If so then you've a 10mm+ gap between the insulation and internal skin... Cold air will circulate through this, negating a large portion of the insulation. I.e. it'll be cold. It's needs to be rectified.

[Russell griffiths]

Have you read up on the bloke on here with the extension that just will not get warm, and looked at all the issues he has. 
read it and get a good grasp of what is right and wrong. 
pretty painted walls and nicely fitted architrave doesn’t make a good building. 

[Bounce]

13 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

Have you read up on the bloke on here with the extension that just will not get warm, and looked at all the issues he has. 
read it and get a good grasp of what is right and wrong. 
pretty painted walls and nicely fitted architrave doesn’t make a good building. 

Thanks, I will try find it and have read. I've printed the instructions off for installation, I need to work out what the best solution is to rectify the existing, and ensure going forward they do this correctly. It's frustrating as they've bought all the materials apart from the clips (which aren't expensive), but just cut corners on the work, which wouldn't have taken much extra time in the grand scheme if things. 

[Bounce]

This is video of one of the walls, the internal block wall is on the left... 

[Canski]

Another plus for full fill cavity bats. That job is a pathetic attempt at bricklaying. I’d sack them now. 

[Bounce]

Could installing insulated plasterboard help? I know it will eat into the room space... 

[Iceverge]

54 minutes ago, Bounce said:

Could installing insulated plasterboard help? I know it will eat into the room space... 

 

The trouble is that unless the boards in the cavity are sealed to the inner leaf and sealed to eachother you'll get wind blowing behind them and they may as well be sitting out in the garden at that rate. 

 

The same wind will blow through the blocks, ( Blocks are like rice Krispies cakes, very porus). This wind will make it's way out sockets, around skirting and your extension will be very cold. Again your extra insulation is doing little unless you prevent the wind from blowing through it. 

 

Either start from scratch or use a closed cell foam like Walltite or Technitherm to completely fill the residual cavity .

 

 

 

 

You could pull out the boards that are there and use EPS beads instead. Your U value will be about 0.3 but still perform vastly better than the existing situation. 

[Bounce]

12 minutes ago, Iceverge said:

 

The trouble is that unless the boards in the cavity are sealed to the inner leaf and sealed to eachother you'll get wind blowing behind them and they may as well be sitting out in the garden at that rate. 

 

The same wind will blow through the blocks, ( Blocks are like rice Krispies cakes, very porus). This wind will make it's way out sockets, around skirting and your extension will be very cold. Again your extra insulation is doing little unless you prevent the wind from blowing through it. 

 

Either start from scratch or use a closed cell foam like Walltite or Technitherm to completely fill the residual cavity .

 

 

 

 

You could pull out the boards that are there and use EPS beads instead. Your U value will be about 0.3 but still perform vastly better than the existing situation. 

Or they take the outer skin down and start again? Doubt they'll want to do that though.. 

[Russell griffiths]

I’m afraid you are gaining knowledge after you needed it. 
stop the work now before you end up with a very expensive building that performs like it was built in 1980. 
 

[Russell griffiths]

12 minutes ago, Bounce said:

Or they take the outer skin down and start again? Doubt they'll want to do that though.. 

the problem with doing this is you need to get them to agree that it needs fitting correctly and they are happy to learn it was poor, and want to do it better. 
you have a chance in a million of this happening, and it’s far more likely they will push back and say it’s fine, at that point you need to work out if you can part company and start again. 

[Bounce]

18 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

the problem with doing this is you need to get them to agree that it needs fitting correctly and they are happy to learn it was poor, and want to do it better. 
you have a chance in a million of this happening, and it’s far more likely they will push back and say it’s fine, at that point you need to work out if you can part company and start again. 

Can we get a building inspector to check this? I am thinking, if they say its fine, I could suggest getting it checked if they are confident it's ok. If they say it's ok, we carry on, if not they rectify...? 

[Russell griffiths]

13 minutes ago, Bounce said:

Can we get a building inspector to check this? I am thinking, if they say its fine, I could suggest getting it checked if they are confident it's ok. If they say it's ok, we carry on, if not they rectify...? 

You would need to pay privately, it would probably cause so much bad feeling it would be hard to continue with the rest of the build. 
unless you have some lads that genuinely want to learn how to do things better. 
 

[MR10]

3 hours ago, Bounce said:

Thanks, I will try find it and have read. 

 

 

[Iceverge]

Neglecting to nominate a third party to oversee quality control is a very common error we make as self builders. Assuming building control will do it is also a mistake. They only ensure the building isn't obviously dangerous and otherwise " close enough" to the regs. 

 

You can pay a project manager or architect or engineer to oversee but it's expensive so most folk just leave the builder to get on with it. The results are variable unfortunately. 

 

In this case, you as the client are unexpected having to step into the role. It's not pleasant but most of us have been there and made the same errors so are willing to help. 

 

Please post more wide angle photos of how far the work has progressed so far and we will try to suggest the best remedial action so you can get a good result. 

 

Please post sectional drawings etc too with your name removal so we can try identify some potholes further down the track. 

 

 

 

 

[EdHat]

It is particularly important with this type of insulation that joints to the cavity facing side of the inner skin are struck of flush.

Firstly, so that you do not get any air gaps behind between the insulation and inner skin which seriously undermines the thermal performance given in the design.

Secondly, so the 10mm clear cavity between the insulation and outer skin isn't reduced. Generally, you need a 50mm clear cavity with insulation boards. Manufacturer's developed these products with a tongue and groove joint so that 100mm cavities could still be used after U-value requirements were changed. They were tested with a 10mm cavity and require this to ensure moisture doesn't pass across the cavity. Any gap behind will mean less than a 10mm clear cavity.

[Bounce]

20 minutes ago, Iceverge said:

Neglecting to nominate a third party to oversee quality control is a very common error we make as self builders. Assuming building control will do it is also a mistake. They only ensure the building isn't obviously dangerous and otherwise " close enough" to the regs. 

 

You can pay a project manager or architect or engineer to oversee but it's expensive so most folk just leave the builder to get on with it. The results are variable unfortunately. 

 

In this case, you as the client are unexpected having to step into the role. It's not pleasant but most of us have been there and made the same errors so are willing to help. 

 

Please post more wide angle photos of how far the work has progressed so far and we will try to suggest the best remedial action so you can get a good result. 

 

Please post sectional drawings etc too with your name removal so we can try identify some potholes further down the track. 

 

 

 

 

Thanks. 

 

They are about 2/3 of the way up for the ground floor, still a bit more to go to finish ground floor, then they'll start on the upstairs. 

 

This one seems flush against internal wall, but the gap between external wall has snots. 

 

Again they've not used cavity clips to hold it tight against the wall, although there isn't any movement, I assume because of the snots. 

 

[Bounce]

There is a gap here, as they just have cut the tongue off. 

[saveasteading]

That is unacceptable.

[Conor]

Yeah, take it all out, full fill beads instead. At the builders cost. Will have a lower u value in paper but will perform better. I'd also be looking at insulated plasterboard.

[Bounce]

1 hour ago, Conor said:

Yeah, take it all out, full fill beads instead. At the builders cost. Will have a lower u value in paper but will perform better. I'd also be looking at insulated plasterboard.

Thanks. Is that something that can be done without removing the inner or outer skin? 

[saveasteading]

9 hours ago, saveasteading said:

That is unacceptable

It is probably what is happening on lots of newbuild, due to shortages of skills and supervision ,  but gets covered up and not seen by bco.

The big developers ' invite' bco at a stage to suit themselves.

So expect resistance from the builder.

 

But it remains unacceptable. That wall will perform about 10% below if it was done right.

[Bounce]

Thanks all.. 

 

I'd spoken to recticel this morning over the phone and email. They've also confirmed in writing that it doesn't look correct. I went armed with this information and the instructions of how to Install this insulation. 

 

The building firm we've used, subcontracted the bricklaying out, and our building firm, didn't QC/Oversee it, it took me to notice it.

 

They have agreed to rectify it from tomorrow. I think they are potentially going to take the blocks (inner skin) down and relay them, with the insulation attached properly. Do you think this possible? 

 

I've got to meet them again on site tomorrow to go over it what they will be doing. 

[Russell griffiths]

Take the brickwork down, not the blocks. 

[Bounce]

8 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

Take the brickwork down, not the blocks. 

I assume they didn't want to damage the outer bricks, as they came from Germany. Plus they are expensive and take 3-4 weeks to get more. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Bounce