tokyotecubate Posted February 10 Posted February 10 Hello all! We have a set of plumbers from out of town who have set up our concealed shower valves during our first fix, where our second fix for the bathrooms are to be completed by a different set of plumbers locally ( long story behind this setup - we have commissioned an energy renewable company to upgrade our heating to a heat pump, with which they will also be setting up our first fix plumbing - turns out the plumbers they uses are based out of town and it's not really feasible to ask them to come all the way down for our second fix 😬) While our local plumber conducts the inspection of the fist fix plumbing before the second fix plumbing, he pointed out that the current shower valves are located way too deep, and are too recessed to be connected to the handles and taps. He says that it would require a reconnection of the valves, which requires us to also open up the walls and all the plasterboard behind ( which we have already decorated and painted. This seems like a lot of work and a bit excessive for just to connect to the taps? From what it looks like, the plasterboard and the tiles itself are already taking up more than 20mm, so I am not too sure how much futher can it be protruded out? You can see the pictures of the current set up below. ( the product is this one: https://www.screwfix.com/p/swirl-melba-rear-fed-concealed-satin-brass-multi-head-shower/480kh) Would love to hear your suggestion on how to tackle this too - are there any easier way to fix this, other than cutting the wall behind to reach the setup and reconnecting everything as the plumber suggested? Thank you!
Chanmenie Posted February 10 Posted February 10 (edited) I have just fitted similar myself, and yes mine protrude far more. I hade to cut away the plasterboard when I fitted the valves to get them far enough forward, so the only thing that reduced how much they protrude was the tiles. As I did mine myself I was able to mock everything up before finalising the depth of the valves. so yes unfortunately you are going to have to re position the valves much further forward, so if you can get to the back of them that’s probably easier than removing the tiles. Edited February 10 by Chanmenie 1
tokyotecubate Posted February 10 Author Posted February 10 thank you for sharing your experience! I wonder if there are any extensions (or similar products) to enable the taps to protrude more?
Russell griffiths Posted February 10 Posted February 10 Some makes do have extensions however I don’t think they are available for that valve you have, do some searching. I think you will end up tearing that wall apart. having two different teams fit first and second fix can be a recipe for disaster I’m afraid. 2
saveasteading Posted February 10 Posted February 10 2 hours ago, tokyotecubate said: I wonder if there are any extensions Ask the merchant, if you know who it was, and/or the manufacturer.
Onoff Posted February 10 Posted February 10 (edited) Don't know if this would fit the splined one? https://www.divapor.com/spares/bathrooms/cartridge-adapters/12mm-cartridge-spline-spindle-extender-adapter-20-spline-76mm-to-20-spline-76mm.php? Edited February 10 by Onoff
Onoff Posted February 10 Posted February 10 How about setting a flanged, grade 316, polished stainless tray into the wall to keep the existing shower controls / shaft lengths? https://www.adelphi.uk.com/product/stainless-steel-trays/
Nickfromwales Posted February 10 Posted February 10 5 hours ago, tokyotecubate said: thank you for sharing your experience! I wonder if there are any extensions (or similar products) to enable the taps to protrude more? Nope. The pivot point of the handle, which moves up and down + left to right, simply won't move enough, if at all. The head of that 'tap' moves upwards physically, and from the pic you can see immediately that the possibility of that being operated is "not a chance". You should be able to get more tiles if a new job, so time to just remove the 4 tiles around the valve, move it, and re-tile. The problem will not go away by any other means, sorry!
Onoff Posted February 10 Posted February 10 2 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Nope. The pivot point of the handle, which moves up and down + left to right, simply won't move enough, if at all. The head of that 'tap' moves upwards physically, and from the pic you can see immediately that the possibility of that being operated is "not a chance". You should be able to get more tiles if a new job, so time to just remove the 4 tiles around the valve, move it, and re-tile. The problem will not go away by any other means, sorry! So that square plastic bit is like a joystick?
Nickfromwales Posted February 10 Posted February 10 9 minutes ago, Onoff said: How about setting a flanged, grade 316, polished stainless tray into the wall to keep the existing shower controls / shaft lengths? https://www.adelphi.uk.com/product/stainless-steel-trays/ I was just sick in my mouth...... "no" to that too. C'mon people, it just needs taking out and doing again, properly, then just move on with life and admire a nice shower install free from 'ugly' or 'compromise'. I've been fitting bathrooms for decades, and this just can't be fixed as is. @tokyotecubate can you get to the valve from behind? If cutting a plastered and painted wall is the only obstacle then that's 100% the way to attack this, and leave the tiles intact. That could be fixed in a day if there's access to the rear? 1
Nickfromwales Posted February 10 Posted February 10 1 minute ago, Onoff said: So that square plastic bit is like a joystick? Yup. Moves the handle head off like a Parliament hinge moves a door.
tokyotecubate Posted February 13 Author Posted February 13 On 10/02/2025 at 21:20, Nickfromwales said: I was just sick in my mouth...... "no" to that too. C'mon people, it just needs taking out and doing again, properly, then just move on with life and admire a nice shower install free from 'ugly' or 'compromise'. I've been fitting bathrooms for decades, and this just can't be fixed as is. @tokyotecubate can you get to the valve from behind? If cutting a plastered and painted wall is the only obstacle then that's 100% the way to attack this, and leave the tiles intact. That could be fixed in a day if there's access to the rear? yes we should be able to get access from behind as it's a plastered stud wall, seems like the way to do! One thing - does this mean that we will have to reconnect the pipe connections to the valve when we 'push' it out? Would we still be able to cut the plasterboard for the valve when we try to acess it from behind? hopefully this could be fixed within a day. Thank you for all your comments and looking into this!
Nickfromwales Posted February 13 Posted February 13 11 minutes ago, tokyotecubate said: yes we should be able to get access from behind as it's a plastered stud wall, seems like the way to do! One thing - does this mean that we will have to reconnect the pipe connections to the valve when we 'push' it out? Would we still be able to cut the plasterboard for the valve when we try to acess it from behind? hopefully this could be fixed within a day. Thank you for all your comments and looking into this! You'll need to turn the water off, disconnect the pipes, cut the valve free, and look as to how you can affix this back in from behind, given the current fixing screws holding the valve in place will have been driven in from the front This will need a plumber with a brain, and DNA that promotes a bit of clever engineering of some plywood brackets etc; these would need to be fitted to the shower valve, then it turned away from you, then held in exactly the right place for the facia and handles to go on, And THEN the plywood / other brackets (made to fit by said person) will then get fixed to the studwork and job's a good one Remember the plasterboard will need to be removed to allow the valve to sit forward (tight up behind the tiles). Choose your plumber well, or maybe a bathroom fitter who has done more of these types of installations (as you don't want the same type of dickhead back that fitted this one). 1
marshian Posted February 13 Posted February 13 (edited) Slightly OT but has that shower area been tiled onto plasterboard?? Ignore me it definitely has - not sure I'd be happy with that especially as you can see channels in the adhesive Edited February 13 by marshian
tokyotecubate Posted February 24 Author Posted February 24 yes it has - is it bad / unacceptable? what should have been done, and is there anything we can do to rectify it now?
Nickfromwales Posted February 24 Posted February 24 9 hours ago, tokyotecubate said: yes it has - is it bad / unacceptable? what should have been done, and is there anything we can do to rectify it now? Some people say to use cement board instead of plasterboard, in wet areas, but I’ve used plasterboard in 99% of my bathroom / wet room installs without ever having an issue. I always tank the boards and seal up well, so there’s no where for water to get in and start any problems, just down to the diligence of the bathroom fitter / tiler etc. When fitting the surround after these works are compete, ask the question of how this will be sealed up, and also ask them to use CT1 instead of silicone, as silicone breaks down over time. 1
marshian Posted February 24 Posted February 24 9 hours ago, tokyotecubate said: yes it has - is it bad / unacceptable? what should have been done, and is there anything we can do to rectify it now? As @Nickfromwales has said it's not unacceptable but it does come with some risk if water is able to get behind the tiles then the plasterboard can quickly become a saturated soggy mess and tiles then detach from the soggy mess - I have a false wall at the back of both showers (Hides pumps, controls and plumbing but I do have a process for access - back in 90's I did the false wall in marine ply, on a refurb 20 years later I used cement board as I found some deterioration of the ply as I gutted the bathroom In the other bathroom recently refurbished I used the jackoboard for the false wall - rest of the walls are all brick/plaster so no concerns there I don't think there is an easy/cheap way to rectify so live with it just bear in mind the concerns
Nickfromwales Posted February 24 Posted February 24 On 10/02/2025 at 15:02, tokyotecubate said: This seems like a lot of work and a bit excessive for just to connect to the taps? From what it looks like, the plasterboard and the tiles itself are already taking up more than 20mm, so I am not too sure how much futher can it be protruded out? You can see the pictures of the current set up below. ( the product is this one: https://www.screwfix.com/p/swirl-melba-rear-fed-concealed-satin-brass-multi-head-shower/480kh) I’ve just looked through this, and this is not a thermostatic mixer, it is a manual mixer. What is the device giving you hot water? If its a combi boiler then there is a significant risk of being scalded, so a big worry if you have small children or elderly / dependant people using it. I would look at the possibility of changing this to a thermostatic unit or otherwise installing a thermostatic mixing valve into the hot pipe work prior to the shower to cap the max temp that can be delivered with the shower set to max hot position. This is a concern. 1
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