Tin Soldier Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) Morning All I've moved on to planning the plumbing for my extension. There are a couple of areas of concern for me in terms of the plumbing. My existing house runs on what must be some form of loop plumbing. Its a Victorian farmhouse with a couple of extensions bolted on. 1 bathroom in a catslide upstairs and a utility room downstairs. Both of these extensions take an age to get hot water to from my existing Combi Boiler (Oil). My major concern is that my extension is doubling the size of my house, but on a single storey (so the footprint I guess is 200% of the original). which means more addition to the plumbing loop? and possibly a very long wait to get hot water The second concern is low flow rate of my water. At the moment its sitting at 12l per minute. which is not great. Its a private borehole. I'm a pretty hands on type, apart from (historically) plumbing, so I'm keen to save what I can. Reading on here, and looking over the current favourite, Nicks fanastic manifold plumbing setup), I like the sound of this. If the manifold was central, the longest run to an outlet would be 25m to the new side of the house, where we will spend the majority of our time and will house the main bathroom. I'm happy to accept the old side having the same loop system (but I guess connected to manifold) In an ideal world I would have a thermal store (ground floor) heated by an external system boiler, and frequently a woodburning boiler stove (complete with safety features to run cool water in if it overheats). This would allow me to run two showers from the thermal store at the same time. I have attached a picture of my thoughts, but I have numerous questions. 1. is the low flow rate of 12l per minute acceptable - what can be done to increase it? is it a cold water accumulator. 2. If so can someone point me in the direction of an example? 3. Is it possible to have a ground floor thermal store with no cold water tank in the loft - do I need an expansion vessel? 4. what else is missing from here that I need to think about? Many thanks for any assistance plumbing.pdf Edited November 21, 2017 by Tin Soldier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 For all things private borehole related the best source of information is @JSHarris blog .... if you can’t find it there, it’s probably not worth reading ..! Is anyone else on the borehole or is it you alone..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Soldier Posted November 21, 2017 Author Share Posted November 21, 2017 its just me on the borehole, tis mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 56 minutes ago, Tin Soldier said: 1. is the low flow rate of 12l per minute acceptable - what can be done to increase it? is it a cold water accumulator. I run our borehole pump at around that flow rate, to prevent the pump from drawing up fine sand. To get the flow rate up in the house to a usable level (12 litre/minute is too low, IMHO), I have two 300 litre pressure vessels in the pump house, that each hold about 150 litres of water at a pressure of between 3.5 and 4 bar. That's a big enough buffer that we can draw 30 litres/minute plus off the system if need be, with little pressure drop (the pipework from the pressure vessels/filtration is all either 25mm MDPE or 22mm copper). I also have another 100 litre pressure vessel inside the house, right next to the "rising main", that holds about 50 litres of water at the same pressure, 3.5 to 4 bar. This just adds a bit of local pressure reinforcement for instant events, like someone turning a tap on, or flushing a toilet, when the shower is running. It means we have lots of usable water pressure all the time, even when a shower or bath is being run. BTW, I only used two 300 litre pressure vessels for space reasons, it was easier to fit two side by side than one bigger one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Soldier Posted November 21, 2017 Author Share Posted November 21, 2017 Hi JSHarris, thanks for that info. any pointers to the pressure vessels you have put in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
le-cerveau Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 I won't comment on the borehole, however 25m run for a hot water pipe is not insignificant! 25m of 22mm pipework is 8l of water, 15mm is 3.65l, that is a lot of water to pull through to get to hot water. I would thing a circulation system (and well insulated pipes) would be your solution. If you go for accumulators to give you the pressure then you won'y have a cold water tank in the loft, just a sealed system. I am sure a resident plumber will be along in due course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Soldier Posted November 21, 2017 Author Share Posted November 21, 2017 Yes, I did think that they were pretty long runs Not something every mentioned by my trusty architect as a problem but now its on me to get the detail right and make the best of it Thanks Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
le-cerveau Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 You will find Architects don't usually consider technical issues just the ascetics. They leave that to the engineers to sort out! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Soldier Posted November 21, 2017 Author Share Posted November 21, 2017 I assume you mean your fine selves forum engineers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Despite views to the contrary, combi boilers aren’t instant as the heat exchangers hold water so the first slug is lukewarm - and 25m is a long way to go ..!! If you have the luxury of replacing all of the runs then look carefully at where your bulk usage will be - that is showers & baths. This should be as close to the main tank as possible - thermal store or UVC is irrelevant at this point. Basins, kitchens and utility rooms can be fed by 10mm radial pipes - they hold much less volume and are quick to pull through to the taps. Flow in a 10mm is adequate for anything except baths and showers. If the kitchen is the furthest point from the tank then dispense with the hot feed and go with either an under counter inline heater or one of the combined boiling water taps that also does a hot water supply then you only need cold to the kitchen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Soldier Posted November 21, 2017 Author Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) Hi Peter thanks for that I am replacing the combi with a system boiler of appropriate power fortunately the kitchen is the nearest point to the proposed thermal store location. interesting point for the 10mm to basins... Edited November 21, 2017 by Tin Soldier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tin Soldier said: Hi JSHarris, thanks for that info. any pointers to the pressure vessels you have put in? They are both different makes, because I fitted one, then added another one a bit later, when I found out I needed more flow to backwash our filter, but they are all much of a muchness, TBH, with nothing much to choose between any of them. Most seem to be either Italian or Polish, and the only thing I checked was that spare EPDM bladders were available for them if they ever needed replacement (it's slightly cheaper to replace the bladder than replace the whole tank, but not much in it when you take into account the additional labour involved). My pressure vessels are all vertical, because generally vertical ones last a fair bit longer than horizontal ones, as the bladder doesn't end up rubbing on the bottom of the inside of the vessel every time it cycles. Out of interest, why are you limited to 12 litre/minute? Is that a borehole capacity limit, or for some other reason? Edited November 21, 2017 by JSHarris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Soldier Posted November 21, 2017 Author Share Posted November 21, 2017 Well that's an interesting question re borehole limit Since we moved into the house we've had the borehole and its various filters serviced by a 'professional' twice, the first time there was noticeable increase in pressure, the second time a noticeable decrease. It's completely fine to live with at the moment, as the hot water we get from our combi boiler is not exactly rapid and we knew things were changing out. I've going to venture down to my pumphouse (its circa 150m from the house (downhill), next to the old well and have a close look at the goings on in there and see if there is something I can twiddle. This runs uphill to another pumphouse (which I guess used to pump from the well) where there was once a cold water tank stored, under the track and into my house. Is this the kind of thing we're talking about? http://www.hot-water-cylinders.com/Zilmet-Ultra-Pro-Expansion-Vessel-With-Interchangeable-Membrane--500-Litre_p_5885.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 It sounds to me as if you may well have some pipe losses that are contributing to your low flow rate. 150m of pipe running up a hill is going to reduce the flow rate, especially if the pipe isn't that big. Do you know how far down the water level is in the borehole, and how much height difference there is from the pump house to the house? Normally the pressure switch (which in your case will probably be down at the pump house) will be set to a cut in and cut out pressure. I have ours set to cut in at 3.5 bar and cut out at 4 bar, as I like having as high a pressure as I can, but I can only do that as I have an optical pressure switch, that is easy to adjust. The mechanical ones with springs and screws (which is almost certainly what you will have) are a PITA to adjust properly, so are usually set to around 2 bar cut in and 3 bar cut off. If your pump house is around10m lower than the house you will lose 1 bar of pressure straight away, because of the static head. Borehole pumps vary a bit, but our, relatively small, Grundfos SQ 1-65, can deliver 20 litres per minute at a pump pressure of 6 bar, or 10 litres per minute at a pump pressure of about 8.4 bar. Our borehole water level is between 12m and 20m below the height of our shower (the water level varies a bit with pumping rate) so our pump head loss is around 1.2 to 2 bar. That means I could still have 20 litres per minute at the house shower level at a pressure of about 4 bar if I wanted to, though. This is a pretty small pump (less than 1 hp), too. Putting a pressure vessel high up, and setting the pressure switch to maintain that pressure vessel at around 3 bar (allowing for the head loss due to the height difference and the pipe flow resistance), should make a very big difference indeed. That 500 litre vessel you linked to is the same make as one of ours, but I didn't pay anything like that for the 300 litre version I bought. IIRC, it was much less, around £300 IIRC. A quick look around shows that there are cheaper options for a 500 litre tank, like this one: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/500-Litre-Maxivarem-LS-Vertical-Potable-Water-Expansion-Vessel-Special-Offer/162723999819?hash=item25e31b304b:g:5HQAAOSwI59Z7wO- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Soldier Posted November 21, 2017 Author Share Posted November 21, 2017 Hi JS Well the pump house is exactly 10metres below the house level The borehole, I have been told, is 55m deep within the pump house there is a horizontal vessel that must be a pressure vessel now that I think about it When you turn on the borehole pump down there, I believe it builds the pressure in there before releasing. I never really knew what was going on in but now it makes sense, it then runs through carbon media tank, a paper filter housing and up the hill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 That's useful, so you're losing at least 1 bar of head between the lower pump house and the house ground floor, perhaps 1.5 bar or so at the first floor of the house. The borehole is about the same depth as ours (ours is 53m) but what matters is how deep the water surface level is below the ground, as that determines how hard the pump has to work. In our borehole the water surface varies from between 4.5m below ground level to about 11m below ground level after I've had the pump on continuously at around 30 litres per minute, for a couple of days, to clean the borehole out. I have a beep tester (easy to make) that I periodically lower down the borehole to check the water depth, and every time I've checked it's been around 4.5 to 5m down. I don't bother checking now, as I'm pretty confident that the water level is always stable at around that depth. I did allow for it dropping to 11m below the surface when sizing things, just in case. If you can relocate the pressure vessel nearer the house, and adjust the pressure switch to get around 3 bar at the house ground floor level, then that should give you a fair bit better flow. I suspect the variation you may have seen has been a combination of filters getting clogged and maybe the pressure switch being adjusted for around 3 bar cut off down at the pump house. If the pressure at the pump house was adjusted up to around 4 bar cut off (raising the cut in pressure to suit) then that would give you 3 bar at the house, which is a pretty reasonable pressure. It's not too hard to set a basic system up, but it depends what you want to do, and how old the existing equipment is. You mention that the pressure vessel is horizontal, which isn't ideal, but is a configuration that is often used for low capacity combined pump sets. These rarely have a very large pressure vessel, usually around 50 to 100 litres (so about half that in terms of stored water under pressure) and often have a pump mounted on top. If the water level in the borehole is not far down (less than about 6m) then one of these pump sets will suck the water up from that depth, so there's nothing more than a suction pipe going down the borehole. Sometimes, a pressure set like this can be configured as a jet pump (a very common set up in the USA) where the surface mounted pump is manually primed when first installed, and has two pipes going down the borehole. One delivers a low volume, high pressure, supply to the jet pump, the other is the outlet from the jet pump. Jet pumps are eductors, with no moving parts, which is one reason that have been popular, but they aren't very efficient, and will rarely deliver a very high pressure and flow rate. Nowadays it wouldn't be usual to fit a set up like this, with a jet pump, as there are plenty of reasonably priced and reliable submersible pumps around. If you have one of these then the give away will be a cable going down the borehole alongside the pipe that delivers water, plus (I hope!) a safety rope to prevent the pump falling down the borehole (it does happen.........). If it were me, and I wanted a more stable supply at the house with a better flow rate, then I'd look at fitting a pressure vessel of around 300 to 500 litres capacity at the house end, perhaps in the old pump house. I'd also fit the filters at this end, too, after the pressure vessel and before the house supply. At the borehole end I'd fit a non-return valve (in case the pump one fails - they do, and it then causes the pipe to drain back slowly) and then an optical pressure switch. I've found a very affordable Chinese made unit is very good indeed. It has a pressure gauge, with two movable pointers that are set by screws to the cut out and cut in pressure. They are so cheap that I bought two, and fitted them with three pin plugs and sockets (the ones used for extension leads for garden tools) so that I can quickly change them over if I ever get a fault. They are sold via Ebay, and these are the ones I have: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151020-Automatic-Water-Pump-Pressure-Controller-Electronic-Adjustable-Switch/272751286212?epid=703592864&hash=item3f813e57c4:g:GCIAAOSwRvdZZOae They have a standard 1/4" BSP male threaded port at the bottom, with an O ring seal, so are easy to fit in place of the spring controlled ones. They also have the advantage that they don't freeze up in cold weather, unlike the spring ones. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Soldier Posted November 21, 2017 Author Share Posted November 21, 2017 JS Many many thanks for such a detailed response, honestly I cannot believe the help you and others give on this forum I'm fairly sure I have a submersible pump of Italian origin. not sure on depth or power or if theres a safety rope. It was installed circa 8 years ago be the previous occupants of the house, at great expense, by the local specialists (filpump), so I would hope its a good job. I am liking the idea of installing a pressure vessel in the pump house level with the house. Are you suggesting replacing the existing (say 100l) pressure vessel at the bottom of the field with a bigger version up the hill, or adding in an additional pressure vessel? I'm definitely venturing down there this evening to take not of everything and also see if I can dig out any information on the pump itself etc thanks scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) I know EXACTLY how hard it is to get good and reliable information on borehole and well systems here in the UK, as I really struggled with ours. I found that every single company that I spoke with, or used, except one, had some degree on incompetence, despite being supposedly experts. The one exception was a borehole guy who came out on site, had a very good look at what we needed, and what the hydrogeologist had recommended, chatted for about an hour or so and then was honest enough to say that really his expertise was mainly with boreholes in chalk, not gault and greensand and that although he'd be willing to have a go, he didn't think it was fair on us to use him when he lacked experience of drilling in this particular type of ground. We had endless problems with our borehole; the whole saga is in our blog, in several entries, but this will give a flavour of some of it: http://www.mayfly.eu/2015/08/part-thirty-seven-a-long-tale-about-water-and-life/ The treatment system design changed a fair bit after that, but that article probably highlights why I spent a lot of time learning about boreholes, drilling, pumps, water treatment etc! If you can take some photos then that would help a great deal. Most borehole stuff is made in Italy or Poland, with the very best pumps being made in Denmark, but they are expensive. Our Grundfos SQ 1-65 pump cost well over £600, which is a great deal more than the pretty decent IBO Polish borehole pumps that can be had for around £120 or so. As a near-zero cost experiment, you could, perhaps, just temporarily relocate the pressure vessel and filtration you have from down at the lower pump house to the upper one, replace the pump pressure switch with the one I suggested (you don't have to do this, but the optical ones are really nice and easy to adjust, and well worth the £20 cost!). You will also need to fit a non return valve down at the lower pump house, just as a backup, but for an experiment you can do without, as it's only really there to take the load off the pump intake valve, which may or may not be designed to take a continuous high back pressure (some are some aren't - our Polish pump definitely needs a non return valve on the outlet, the Grundfos definitely doesn't). The pipe lay out, from the bottom up, would then be: Pump riser pipe from the borehole to the surface (hopefully coming through a sanitary borehole cap, with screened breather vent) Optional non-return valve Tee piece with a 1/4" BSP female thread in the side port, for the pressure switch/gauge Optional drain cock Optional second non-return valve for servicing purposes only (see ** below) Pipe run up to upper pump house Pressure vessel installed in upper pump house, with a tee to the pipe feeding the filters. The filtration system you have (presumably a couple of jumbos - if they are not jumbos then you may want to think about changing them - see **** below for the difference). Output of filtration across to the house mains feed. When setting this up, to allow for the ~1 bar head loss between the house and the lower pump house, the pressure switch needs to be set 1 bar higher than the pressure at the house. I would advise setting the cut in pressure to 3 bar and the cut out pressure to 4 bar. That will then give you a range of 2 bar to 3 bar at the house, which is a reasonably good range of working pressure to have, and should give you a decent flow rate. One issue with the pressure switch is that it comes pre-fitted with two short 3 core cables. This makes installing it awkward, as they are rarely long enough to connect to whatever termination boxes you have (one for the pump switched power feed, on for the incoming power supply). My solution was to buy two pairs of these: https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/TLRC3.html fitted so that the plug is on the incoming power cable of the switch, and the socket on the outgoing feed to the pump, with suitable cables connecting another socket to the mains feed (make sure the power is isolated and checked to be dead before doing this) and a plug to the cable from the pump. This then makes life easier, as you can fit and tighten the gauge/pressure switch to the tee, then just plug the connections together. It's foolproof, as the connections will only go one way. Additionally, if you want to just quickly test the pump without the pressure switch (not recommended unless the pipe is open to flow water somewhere) then you can directly connect the pump cable to the power cable and switch on the isolating switch to check that the pump runs OK. As I mentioned above, this system also makes it easier to change the pressure switch if it ever fails, too. ** The idea here is to allow the short length of pipe between the second non-return valve and the first non-return valve (or direct to the pump) easy to drain down, without a flood. What this means is that you can turn off the power to the pump, open the drain valve to empty that short length of pipe, and change the pressure switch, or haul up the pump to change that, whilst the house still has a small reserve of pressurised water from the pressure vessel. It's a convenience feature, really, but for the relatively low cost of a drain valve and non-return valve worth it, IMHO, although I have to add that my view is coloured by having drained our system a couple of dozen times when I was battling to get it to work properly! **** The difference between standard 10" filters, long 20" filters and jumbo filters is very significant, both in terms of flow rate and filter longevity. Jumbos have a much lower pressure loss, and a greater filtration capacity and are just as easy to change. Here are photos that show what each looks like: These are the long and short jumbo housings, the canister part is around 140mm in diameter. They come in either 10" or 20" lengths, like the standard smaller filters. This is a standard 10" filter housing, it's around 90mm in diameter. This is a standard 20" filter housing. It's the same diameter as the 10" one, just twice as long. It doesn't have a significantly greater flow rate than the 10" standard filter, as it's quite restricted by the size of the head, but it does have around double the filtration life, from the bigger filter cartridge. We have two standard (10" high) jumbo filters. One is a 5µ pleated washable filter, the other is a carbon block filter. I've found that there's no noticeable pressure drop at all across these two filters, whereas when we had two standard 10" filters the pressure would noticeable drop when a couple of taps were opened at the same time. Hope the above helps, Jeremy Edited November 21, 2017 by JSHarris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Just as an aside, we have a couple of pumps that are connected using these as they are IP68 - they also positively lock so are worth using and not expensive. https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/KBJB0011.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, PeterW said: Just as an aside, we have a couple of pumps that are connected using these as they are IP68 - they also positively lock so are worth using and not expensive. https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/KBJB0011.html Probably a better choice than the ones I used. Mine are inside the pump house, so don't (hopefully!) get wet, and I only chose them because I already had an extension lead for my power washer that used them, so I knew they existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 9 hours ago, Tin Soldier said: Reading on here, and looking over the current favourite, Nicks fanastic manifold plumbing setup), I like the sound of this. If the manifold was central, the longest run to an outlet would be 25m to the new side of the house, where we will spend the majority of our time and will house the main bathroom. I'm happy to accept the old side having the same loop system (but I guess connected to manifold) Manifold arrangements are very good in certain circumstances, but if there would be a long run of 25m then you may well do better with a couple of 22mm hot legs, reducing to 15mm for each outlet and have a hot return ( HR ) circuit teeing in at the point the 22 drops to 15mm. The downside with a manifold is that you can only realistically keep a HR loop between the tank and the manifold, whereas a regular but cleverer-erer arrangement will allow you to tee in the HR point much closer or even AT the outlet (s) worst affected. The manifold setup only really works if you don't need a HR where the runs, post manifold, are short enough to negate it, but you can also consider a HR if there is a manifold, ( but it's away from the hot tank ), as the additinal larger bore primary supply pipework and the water in the manifold will then be a huge dead leg. If I ever did my own build it would be a couple of hot manifolds suitably positioned away from the tank, kept hot by a HR loop with everything super insulted to reduce losses. I'd deffo go with a bit of pv to compensate, even if just a small DIY array to offset these and other incidental system losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogman Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) Just to add to the information from JSH. I don't think he mentioned how to check your pressure vessel. Once a year i power down the bore hole pump and run the water till the pressure drops to zero. Open the pressure valve to be sure there is no water pressure in the vessel. On top of the vessel will be a fill valve that is the same as your car tyre valve. Using a tyre pressure gauge check the pressure in the vessel. Now the pressure should be just below the pump cut in pressure. I for some reason lost all the pressure in a tank a few years ago and thought the tank bladder had failed but once i re-pressurised it it held. Could be worth you checking as above As JSH has stated its normally the filters that cause the reduction in flow. I run three in parallel and change the filters every couple of months. As for your borehole details. Your local council are now the legal authority and will have the details of the installation and initial testing( assuming it was properly installed.) they may wish to inspect and have a right to do so. However unless the borehole supply's more than one dwelling or supply's a business including letting the house you do not need to to have annual testing. We were forced to upgrade our borehole well head as we have a self catering cottage on the supply Edited November 21, 2017 by dogman 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Very good point indeed, @dogman. Tanks can and do lose pre-charge, especially if fitted with plastic dust caps. It's a little known fact that the original Schrader valve (as used on tyres and pressure vessels) was never intended to be the primary air seal, it was designed to allow easy filling, with a leakage rate low enough to allow the sealing cap to be fitted before any appreciable pressure drop had occurred. Sadly, the majority of plastic "dust caps" provide no sealing at all, so I make a point of replacing them with proper nickel plated brass seal caps, that have a nitrile rubber seal in. This massively reduces the pressure loss from both pressure vessels and car tyres. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Soldier Posted November 21, 2017 Author Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) Disappointed that manifold is maybe not the way as it seemed straightforward for me to do i don’t quite follow what you’ve said nick are you suggesting a couple of well insulated 22m legs headed to a manifold closer to the action? ill look into hr this evening as I have not a scooby what it is I’ve been down to have a look at the lower pumphouse i was wrong, there seems to be a vertical pressure vessel set at 4 bar the horizontal vessel is the old pump for the well, no longer attached attached are some pics definitely a submersible pump it’s a lowara 1gsl05 https://www.waterpartsdirect.com/product/4-lowara-pumps-1gsl05-borehole-pump/?c=b121d766c7b9 Edited November 21, 2017 by Tin Soldier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) Looks like the vertical pressure vessel that's in use is a 100 litre one, so about 50 litres of usable pressurised water between the pump stop and start points. Not sure what the glass fibre wound tank is. These are usually used as filter tanks, but there's no backwash valve, so I'm wondering if maybe you have fairly acidic water (common up where you are, from the granite) and that pressure vessel is filled with calcite chips to increase the pH? The filter is a standard (not jumbo) 20" one, probably with a wound filter to trap crud. I can't see the carbon filter, unless that glass fibre wound pressure vessel is filled with granulated carbon. That's a bit unusual, but not a bad way to make a high volume activated carbon filter, if that's what it is. The pressure switch is one of the spring ones, adjusted with internal screws. If you wanted to shift things around as an experiment, then It doesn't look too hard to re-jig things. I'd be inclined to start by removing all the disconnected/unused stuff, like that booster pump set (which I think was used to increase the output from the previous submersible pip, perhaps). and any unused pipe work. Then you have two choices. As the existing pump pressure switch is set to 4 bar, and is wired in and working, then you could look at just taking out the pressure vessel and filters, and directly connecting the pipework to the outlet pipe. Relocate the pressure vessel and filters to the upper pump house, and connect them to the supply from the pump and to the house. The pressure vessel will need to have it's pre-charge changed, so whilst it is empty, check the air pressure. A standard car tyre pump, or even a bicycle track pump (I use the latter) will do the job of checking and pumping up the pre-charge. The pressure vessel will be 10m higher, so will now be running ~ 1 bar lower in pressure. The rule of thumb is to set the pre-charge pressure to about 0.1 to 0.15 bar below the pump set cut in pressure at the tank (not the pump). So, if your pressure switch is set to cut in at 3 bar, that will be 2 bar at the pressure vessel when mounted 10m further up the hill. The pre-charge pressure will therefore need to be set to about 1.85 to 1.9 bar with the air pump, when the tank is empty. The advantage of having the pressure vessel closer to the house is that the losses will be lower, but I think you my well find that the 20" standard filter is causing a bit of loss. Best to do one thing at a time though, and minimise the cost of doing things, until you see first hand what effect the changes have. One things that is very useful is to have a pressure gauge directly connected to the pressure vessel and watch that when a tap is turned on. It should drop dramatically, down to 1 bar or less. If it doesn't drop much, then that is pretty much proof that the restriction is somewhere between the pressure vessel and the opened tap. Could be the filter, or could be the pipe work, but either way by moving the pressure tank you've reinforced the supply at the house a fair bit. Edited November 21, 2017 by JSHarris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now