Shared septic tank

[Garyf123]

Hi.
Looking for some advice please.
We are trying to purchase a Railway cottage which is about 125 years old. It is 1 of 7 cottages and has a shared septic tank (original brick unit). The tank is located on nearby recreation ground which is owned by the parish council who also own 2 of the cottages. We are trying to get evidence of it being compliant which is proving very difficult as the parish will not let a third party organize an inspection due to inconvenience to residents! They are saying that they think it is compliant on all of the general binding rules with the exception of the flow rate/cubic capacity of the unit. They are willing to get tests done but not until the middle of next year due to weather and damage to the playing fields bringing plant over it. This obviously does not help me as my buyer will pull out if he has to wait that long. I am willing to still proceed with the purchase if i can get a rough idea of the cost if non-compliant knowing that i will be in for a share of the cost of replacement if deemed too small or whatever. My question is, can anybody give a very rough ballpark figure for a worst case scenario involving total replacement? as i said, there are 5 x 2 bedroom cottages and 2 cottages that have been converted to changing rooms/shower block for local sports teams. I am just trying to work out my total financial risk if i go ahead.
Many thanks in advance.

Gary.

[nod]

Shared isn’t ideal 

Its unlikely that the tank will be compliant Unless you can get the discharge into a sewer 

 

Ballpark 

Suppling a 9 pop treatment plant seams to be around 10k at the moment Quite a bit less for self install 

But you would need a very large TP 

and probably most of the drains replacing 

Id probably look at installing two 

 

The onus is on the seller to knock money off Or sort this out themselves 

Id ask for 12k  reduction to sort your property out 

 

We built five years ago on a garden plot Moved the neighbors tank and drains Had to instal a TP for the new build Something I had never done before We agreed to stand the cost of the neighbors septic tank But offered to upgrade them to a TP for a £1000 

They declined Five years on They have had two sales fall through due to the tank not being compliant 

In my opinion it is But the solicitors seem to call the shots with these things 

 

You always need one eye on resale 

[scottishjohn]

1 hour ago, nod said:

Shared isn’t ideal 

would avoid  this  totally 

you don,t know what will happen in future and with other peole if it goes wrong 

trying to get other parties to fund an upgrade will be near impossible 

 as already said price house with cost to have own system 

you know its the only sensible and future proof option  

 

 

[Russell griffiths]

Go and talk to some of the neighbours, find out what agro they ever have. 
as far as I’m aware the only way it would not comply is if it flows to a waterway, if it exits to a drainage field then it still complies, don’t know the regs on sizes. 
 

if it ever needed replacement then allow £30,000 divided by 7. 

[Garyf123]

Hi,

Thank you all for taking the time out to reply! Could I just ask for your opinions on the following comments from the local parish council regarding the compliance status?

 

Good morning Gary

 

The septic tank at Railway Cottages complies with the general binding rules on the following points:

• Existing discharges started before 1 January 2015 therefore the additional rules do not apply, only the ’rules that apply to all discharges’.  Only rules 2,4,5,7,9,10,11,12,13 and 14 apply.
• Rule 3: The discharge is only domestic waste (the system is self evidently connected to residential properties)
• Rules 4 & 5  The septic tank does not drain to a water course or cause pollution of surface or groundwater.  There is no water course in the vicinity and the Parish Council had the whole system inspected by camera in 2011, which shows the drainage route beneath land next to the railway embankment, ending deep beneath the railway embankment.  
• Rule 7: There is no drainage into any groundwater source at all, much less a groundwater source protection zone 1. 
• Rule 9:  The system was installed before 1983 therefore is not required to meet any British Standard
• Rule 10:  the system has been meeting the needs of the properties it serves in excess of 100 years.  If this was not the case, it would have been improved.
• Rule 11: Residents have evidence of maintenance of the septic tank
• Rule 12:  The system is emptied every 2 years and has been for many years.  As this is a necessity to keep the system working properly for everyone, it is self evident that it is undertaken
• Rule 13: You were made aware of the sewage system
• Rule 14: Not applicable

The general binding rules do not state that either an inspection or a permit or other paperwork is required to confirm that the system complies with the general binding rules, indeed it is plainly stated  'you will not need a permit if you meet all of the general binding rules that apply to you'.  All the assertions made above can be evidenced but there is no requirement to do so.

 

The test to calculate the average daily discharge will be done as soon as it is possible to do so; I don't have a timescale at the moment but it won't be at the same time as the emptying of the tank.

 

[scottishjohn]

I would take a guess that rule11 +12 will be hard to prove that they have been complied with 

[nod]

19 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

I would take a guess that rule11 +12 will be hard to prove that they have been complied with 

Good advise 

 

 

We’ve just been through this with the TP that I fitted Question after Question  from our buyers Solicitors 

Then they wanted to know my qualifications 

In the end we had to pay an expert to inspect all the drainage and plant 

Still didn’t satisfy the buyers solicitors 

 

It seems that these rules are being enforced at point of sale 

It’s so difficult to prove that they comply So solicitors air on the side of caution and decide that it doesn’t comply 

 

Im guessing that your solicitor will flag this and want it resolved before you proceed 

The figure I quoted above will get you a TP that is independent of the rest 

and give you piece of mind 

It’s quite normal to expect the seller to sort this out prior to sale 

[Kelvin]

All of which might be true but I wouldn’t just take their word for it. As a minimum speak with the other owners to get their opinion. 
 

Solicitors (lenders) are becoming ever more focused on all of these details and it doesn’t take much for it to become an issue. Our last house had a shared catch tank and pump to pump it to the main sewer line. I had all the drawings and specifications for the tank and pump. We had it serviced and cleaned every year. The drawings were really hard to read, a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy. And the details of the system vague. When we came to sell we had no end of back and forth with the lenders wanting ever more detail about the sewage arrangement, proof it had been serviced, details and remediation of any issues, estimates of cost to replace/upgrade and when I thought this might be required, how much money was in the shared sink fund and how it was proportioned to fund future (unknowable) costs and whether we had had any issues with people putting the wrong things down their loos. Our conveyor had never come across this level of detailed requirement and, frankly, nonsense before. 
 

I’d never do shared anything ever again tbh. 

Edited Sunday at 12:11 by Kelvin

[scottishjohn]

2 hours ago, Kelvin said:

Our conveyor had never come across this level of detailed requirement and, frankly, nonsense before.

not really nonsense if the people you share with keep putting wrong things in it and uase bio washing powder  etcand refuse to pay or cannot afford  to

 and if an old system it will be linked to sinks so all the fat they put down there from washing out pans will end up there as well

 

Edited Sunday at 14:58 by scottishjohn

[ToughButterCup]

Had this problem twice.

Each time solved by putting our own system in.

 

RightRoyalPainInTheArseInMoreWaysThanOne

[Kelvin]

14 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

not really nonsense if the people you share with keep putting wrong things in it and uase bio washing powder  etcand refuse to pay or cannot afford  to

 and if an old system it will be linked to sinks so all the fat they put down there from washing out pans will end up there as well

 

 

How could I  determine if folk would refuse to pay or didn’t have the means to pay? How could I estimate how much something might cost in the future and when that was likely to be. It was also a catch tank not a septic tank so I’d need to go fishing about in it to see what was being flushed by other people.   We paid a monthly mgt fee into a fund that was accruing at £3000 pa and the account had £16,000 in it at that point. It was maintained annually and cleaned and I could evidence that. In the end they accepted what I provided them and agreed the rest of it wasn’t required. 

Edited Sunday at 15:12 by Kelvin

[Garyf123]

5 hours ago, scottishjohn said:

I would take a guess that rule11 +12 will be hard to prove that they have been complied with 

The parish council organise the maintenance and emptying of unit so there should be a paper trail.

My concern is trying to determine what the maximum financial cost would be to us if the worst case scenario happened and complete replacement was needed. No so much worried about the shared element as the parish picks up the costs and hands out individual invoices to residents.

[Russell griffiths]

47 minutes ago, Garyf123 said:

The parish council organise the maintenance and emptying of unit so there should be a paper trail.

My concern is trying to determine what the maximum financial cost would be to us if the worst case scenario happened and complete replacement was needed. No so much worried about the shared element as the parish picks up the costs and hands out individual invoices to residents.

It’s been mentioned here twice I think. £30-40 grand divided by 7 houses. 

Edited Sunday at 17:37 by Russell griffiths

[Garyf123]

Brilliant, thank you. At least i have some figures to work with now!