ElliotS Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 As requested, a shorter version of my predicament ha! i have a 1940's bungalow that i renovated and added a 2 storey extension (rear) to about 2 years ago. I now dont like the layout of the original bungalow as it is small and doesnt work very well with 3 bedrooms (one used to be living room). I have a new amazing master bedroom upstairs in the extension but cant use it as i have 2 young children so i need to be downstairs. The original bungalow is always cold as there is no cavity and recently covered log burner so heating bills have gone up alot. Id like to know if it would be best to: A) knock down the original part of the house and re-build as a full 2 storey house with modern regs b) Try for permitted development to go up a floor and make upstairs bedroom better insulated, providing not too much work in footings c) do a loft conversion with a dormer possibly, would have to be a double hip to gable conversion. d) its not worth the hassle and to move on to another property. (I do love where we live though and nothing on the market at the moment that ticks the boxes we want) I got the house for 150k and its worth around 450k now. I have a team of all trades and i am the teams project manager so i have total control of the project whichever way we go. would love to get different opinions and responses. Let me know if there is any questions. 850_GA-003 PROPOSED PLAN.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 A shame you did not just demolish and start again. I am not sure if you could still get the VAT concession now but it may be worth a go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElliotS Posted November 27 Author Share Posted November 27 7 minutes ago, Mr Punter said: A shame you did not just demolish and start again. I am not sure if you could still get the VAT concession now but it may be worth a go. I know right! if i'd have known what I do now that is exactly what I would have done. I guess it would depend if i pulled the front end down and it was then classed as an extension or new dwelling? I'm not sure, I dont think ive seen or heard of it being done to be honest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 Nobody can answer this, only you, you’re stood there looking at it, you know your financial situation, you know what it’s worth. sorry we can only answer technical questions. personally I would knock the lot down and build the biggest most expensive house in the street, then sell it and do it again. but my circumstances probably don’t fit in with yours, so you need to do what is right for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 2 minutes ago, ElliotS said: I know right! if i'd have known what I do now that is exactly what I would have done. I guess it would depend if i pulled the front end down and it was then classed as an extension or new dwelling? I'm not sure, I dont think ive seen or heard of it being done to be honest It will not be a new dwelling, you won’t get the vat back, it’s just another extension. same as the loft conversion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElliotS Posted November 27 Author Share Posted November 27 6 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said: Nobody can answer this, only you, you’re stood there looking at it, you know your financial situation, you know what it’s worth. sorry we can only answer technical questions. personally I would knock the lot down and build the biggest most expensive house in the street, then sell it and do it again. but my circumstances probably don’t fit in with yours, so you need to do what is right for you. I understand what you are saying, its just that sometimes it can get overwhelming with options and i keep looping back to different scenarios. i already have one of the most expensive houses on the street now since the work has been done. If i had a suitable plot of land to buy and build on, the for sale sign would go up tomorrow but as we all know, those opportunities come few and far between. one of my sticking points is we built a nice garden outbuilding which hosts our garage, gym, bar and wifes hair room. The hair room alone is worth alot to us as it means we arent renting anywhere for her to work. finding a property with space to have this again is difficult at the price range we are looking when buying somewhere new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElliotS Posted November 27 Author Share Posted November 27 1 hour ago, Russell griffiths said: Nobody can answer this, only you, you’re stood there looking at it, you know your financial situation, you know what it’s worth. sorry we can only answer technical questions. personally I would knock the lot down and build the biggest most expensive house in the street, then sell it and do it again. but my circumstances probably don’t fit in with yours, so you need to do what is right for you. Also, in your opinion, is the option of taking down the front and rebuilding feasible from a technical perspective? How would it effect the extension or would i like have to just blank it off temporarily until we built back to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G and J Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 I’d be tempted to imagine/doodle/draw whatever the house I’d build if the whole thing wasn’t there. A buildable plan mind, not a flight of fancy. Then determine how close you can get to that with each option. That process may well make the decision easy for you. All of the options will be feasible physically, where they may differ is price and planning acceptability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 Do you need to take the front down, partition it off inside and strip it back to a shell, re insulate it, re plumb, new electrics and then tie it all back in to the new extension on the back. no different to buying an old scudder and doing a refurb on it, except don’t damage anything in the new bit. bring it all up to spec, with a bit of a modern touch to the front, new entrance new windows. how far do you want to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElliotS Posted November 27 Author Share Posted November 27 44 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said: Do you need to take the front down, partition it off inside and strip it back to a shell, re insulate it, re plumb, new electrics and then tie it all back in to the new extension on the back. no different to buying an old scudder and doing a refurb on it, except don’t damage anything in the new bit. bring it all up to spec, with a bit of a modern touch to the front, new entrance new windows. how far do you want to go. I could do that for sure, and it ticks the box for the thermal side of things but its literally a square bungalow so the layout for 3 bedrooms and a kitchen wouldn't change much at all. The reason for going up is to have all of that space dedicated to bedrooms and make use of the new one as part of the extension Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElliotS Posted November 27 Author Share Posted November 27 54 minutes ago, G and J said: I’d be tempted to imagine/doodle/draw whatever the house I’d build if the whole thing wasn’t there. A buildable plan mind, not a flight of fancy. Then determine how close you can get to that with each option. That process may well make the decision easy for you. All of the options will be feasible physically, where they may differ is price and planning acceptability. I have imagined it a thousand different ways haha! To be honest, i dont want to change anything about the extension, it works perfectly and the space its give us is amazing. I would even keep the downstairs layout pretty much as is, if I had the same floor area upstairs to build bedrooms. My current house size relative to the garden and outbuilding size is as good as we can ask for given the plot we have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 That’s sorted then. you need a full tin hat scaffolding put up remove the entire roof remove all roof timbers replace with loft trusses replace hip ends with gables re roof fit out inside. a year of agro and lots of money, but you get what you want. have you got any pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G and J Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 Our 1930s bungalow simply couldn’t take any more weight on its walls or scant foundations, so keeping some of the ground floor would have been difficult and expensive. I wonder if that’s the case for the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted November 28 Share Posted November 28 Have you looked for the cheapest roughest version of what you have so you could knock it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElliotS Posted November 28 Author Share Posted November 28 14 hours ago, G and J said: Our 1930s bungalow simply couldn’t take any more weight on its walls or scant foundations, so keeping some of the ground floor would have been difficult and expensive. I wonder if that’s the case for the OP. Had a chat with my SE and his advice was to make foundations good and go on top of existing house. He has already surveyed them as part of the extension (well what little foundations there is) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElliotS Posted November 28 Author Share Posted November 28 6 hours ago, Russell griffiths said: Have you looked for the cheapest roughest version of what you have so you could knock it down. The more im thinking about it, following SE recommendation to not knock down, the more im favouring going on top of existing with work done to foundations as required. If I can move bedrooms upstairs and insulate properly, I can re-introduce the log burner and use that when needed for downstairs (which is what has worked since we moved in the house). I then dont need to mess with anythig downstairs as i already have staircase in the extension. I cant find the exact date my house was built even on Land Registry deeds, but its at some point around 1945-1950. I can go up a floor under PD if the house was built after 1st July 47, right? How do i know whether i qualify if i have no accurate record? I can only see that a building pops up on OS maps around said years, however does look out of position to where my current house is so maybe it was something else before being turned to a house? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjc55 Posted November 28 Share Posted November 28 (edited) . Edited November 28 by mjc55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElliotS Posted November 28 Author Share Posted November 28 2 minutes ago, mjc55 said: Why would you be allowed to go up a floor with PD? I believe there was a new planning rule around 2020 that allowed an additional floor to a single storey building or 2 additional floors to a 2 storey building under permitted development, it still has to have prior approval from the council to prove it ticks all the correct boxes though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjc55 Posted November 28 Share Posted November 28 21 minutes ago, ElliotS said: I believe there was a new planning rule around 2020 that allowed an additional floor to a single storey building or 2 additional floors to a 2 storey building under permitted development, it still has to have prior approval from the council to prove it ticks all the correct boxes though I don't remember that - good job I retired 😬 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted November 28 Share Posted November 28 1 hour ago, ElliotS said: I believe there was a new planning rule around 2020 that allowed an additional floor to a single storey building or 2 additional floors to a 2 storey building under permitted development, it still has to have prior approval from the council to prove it ticks all the correct boxes though Yes a new permitted development right was added. But take care on the various things that limit it. eg: "1940s bungalow" The rights do not apply to: buildings converted to residential under permitted development rights conservation areas, areas of outstanding natural beauty, the Broads, national parks, world heritage sites and SSSIs buildings constructed before 1 July 1948 or after 28 October 2018 where the existing dwelling house has been enlarged already by the addition of one or storeys whether under permitted development or otherwise https://www.charlesrussellspeechlys.com/en/insights/expert-insights/real-estate/2020/permitted-development-a-right-to-add-new-storeys-to-your-home/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElliotS Posted November 28 Author Share Posted November 28 3 hours ago, Ferdinand said: Yes a new permitted development right was added. But take care on the various things that limit it. eg: "1940s bungalow" The rights do not apply to: buildings converted to residential under permitted development rights conservation areas, areas of outstanding natural beauty, the Broads, national parks, world heritage sites and SSSIs buildings constructed before 1 July 1948 or after 28 October 2018 where the existing dwelling house has been enlarged already by the addition of one or storeys whether under permitted development or otherwise https://www.charlesrussellspeechlys.com/en/insights/expert-insights/real-estate/2020/permitted-development-a-right-to-add-new-storeys-to-your-home/ Yeah my worry is the year the house was built but I can’t find any official documentation to confirm it nor are the OS maps very clear. How would I make the case to the council that It falls inside of the permitted development window? I can’t even ask the neighbours because my house shows up in maps properly in the early 50’s but very few houses around it. I’ve even tried census records but that returned nothing. It looks like the whole of the neighbourhood was part of a farm with various farm buildings on the land that chop and change throughout the years of OS maps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilly Posted November 28 Share Posted November 28 Why not get an architect to give you advice? Or go on one of those shows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G and J Posted November 28 Share Posted November 28 Or decide what you want and bang in a pre app advice thingy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted November 29 Share Posted November 29 It’s ok your engineer saying upgrade the foundations,have you looked into the cost of this. as far as I know the standard price is about £1000 per linear m for underpinning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElliotS Posted November 29 Author Share Posted November 29 9 hours ago, G and J said: Or decide what you want and bang in a pre app advice thingy? I would do but my council (cheshire East) don't offer it for individual projects, only on applications for larger projects basically for developers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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