Pocster Posted November 12 Share Posted November 12 Just when I thought I was at the sign off finish line … bco has magically requested exposed steels are painted fire resistant. These steels have been easily accessible and visible for literally years - with never a mention . The ceiling is up and is fire rated for 30 mins . Needless I’m somewhat pissed off ! Nothing ever in writing “ paint steels “ but presumably from his own notes casually mentions it now as I’ve applied for sign off . Ignoring bco’s incompetence does the fact I have a fire rated ceiling over the steels support my case to avoid taking down the entire ceiling ? I.e is that not fire resistant enough ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted November 12 Share Posted November 12 Surely if covered in a 30 min fire retardant ceiling the steels are not exposed ? Was this not specified in your architects drawings? What does your ceiling consist of? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted November 12 Share Posted November 12 25 minutes ago, Pocster said: .... is that not fire resistant enough ???? It may or may not be. You @Pocster are a legend. We all know that, you know that. But the BCO doesn't. Convince him of your legendary status as somebody who conserves energy - nervous energy - and just bloody does it instead of worrying about it. Better put JustBloodyDoIt - JBDI 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted November 12 Author Share Posted November 12 Well - as the legend I am I recorded the conversation from the last visit . So been listening to that … He does indeed mention fire resistance of the exposed steels . But seemed convinced that if the ceiling tile system could provide 30 mins fire rating then it might be ok . The conversation by the bco is all non commit on his side I.e no “ yes “ or “ that’s acceptable “ . So , need to be careful not too mention that too much … Are steels ( standard red/brown coating ) not fire rated anyway ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted November 12 Author Share Posted November 12 36 minutes ago, joe90 said: Surely if covered in a 30 min fire retardant ceiling the steels are not exposed ? Was this not specified in your architects drawings? What does your ceiling consist of? Further listening to his conversation suggests the concern was fire say by cabling above the ceiling and below the steels . Going to find steel spec 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted November 12 Share Posted November 12 1 minute ago, Pocster said: Further listening to his conversation suggests the concern was fire say by cabling above the ceiling and below the steels . That’s fair enough, however the BCO should have given you a definitive answer on his previous visit, not “it may do” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted November 12 Author Share Posted November 12 No luck with original steel company. They don't have any spec that covers fire rating and don't fire coat their steels. The steel guy thought the BCO was just being pedantic. BCO also wants " We still also require sign off (from G3 ‘Registered operative’) for the unvented hot water tank" - which I assume is just a magic bit of paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Posted November 12 Share Posted November 12 What's the steel doing? Strictly only needs protection if it's supporting a means of escape. But otherwise, your BCO is correct, 30mins fire protection needed. Are you ceiling panels not easy to remove to get access? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted November 12 Author Share Posted November 12 17 minutes ago, Conor said: What's the steel doing? Strictly only needs protection if it's supporting a means of escape. But otherwise, your BCO is correct, 30mins fire protection needed. Are you ceiling panels not easy to remove to get access? What about if no mains cabling crosses under the steel ? I.e no chance of a fire above the ceiling under the steel ? . My low voltage lighting goes direct to the perimeter I.e ring main for lighting is around the edge - so technically lighting wiring ( only thing above the ceiling ) doesn’t go under steel . That sound valid argument? 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted November 12 Author Share Posted November 12 19 minutes ago, Conor said: What's the steel doing? Strictly only needs protection if it's supporting a means of escape. The steels are used to create the stairwell . So you could argue a means of escape . But equally there are nice sliding doors to permit escape in the event of fire . I always wonder what type of fire we’re expecting that will cause structural steel rated at 350% over spec by SE to fail … Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted November 12 Share Posted November 12 The means of escape via other doors and low voltage wiring might be accepted by the BCO, worth a try I guess. Yes un vented tank will require sign off (tho my BCO forgot to ask for mine), 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Posted November 12 Share Posted November 12 Are all you electric cables wired in to a modern consumer unit with RCBOs etc? Then I'd argue the risk of electrical file is minimal and if the ceiling is 30min rated then you're golden. We've only painted two of our steels, the main mezzanine steels are protected by 30min rated ceiling. The point of fire protecting steels is to ensure that the building stays up long enough for escape. A smouldering electrical cable isn't going to bother an RSJ. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted November 12 Author Share Posted November 12 5 minutes ago, Conor said: Are all you electric cables wired in to a modern consumer unit with RCBOs etc? Then I'd argue the risk of electrical file is minimal and if the ceiling is 30min rated then you're golden. We've only painted two of our steels, the main mezzanine steels are protected by 30min rated ceiling. The point of fire protecting steels is to ensure that the building stays up long enough for escape. A smouldering electrical cable isn't going to bother an RSJ. Yep all modern rcbo , cu etc etc . Might see if I can get electrician to write something … Not played this card with bco yet … Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Paulie Posted November 12 Share Posted November 12 cant you just lash it with intumescent paint as it is and its job done? Rawlins will give you a certificate regardless of how well its been applied and that will be enough to satisfy BC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted November 12 Author Share Posted November 12 5 minutes ago, Super_Paulie said: cant you just lash it with intumescent paint as it is and its job done? Rawlins will give you a certificate regardless of how well its been applied and that will be enough to satisfy BC. Yeah I could . But it is a pita . Ceilings a pain to access across the entire width of the property. Just trying to avoid work ! Whats this Rawlings certificate?? I need to look into that …. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted November 12 Author Share Posted November 12 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Super_Paulie said: cant you just lash it with intumescent paint as it is and its job done? Rawlins will give you a certificate regardless of how well it’s been applied and that will be enough to satisfy BC. Just spoke to Rawlings . They won’t issue a certificate unless a professional contractor has applied it . Not for “ diy “ use …. Edited November 12 by Pocster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted November 12 Author Share Posted November 12 Winner winner chicken dinner ! Sent an appropriate email about poor service , lack of work required list after bco viewings etc etc etc Said once I get the G3 thing in then all passed and completion certificate issued . @ToughButterCup just checked the dictionary.. Legend = Pocster Pocster = ( see Legend ) . 5 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canski Posted November 12 Share Posted November 12 Well done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ambrose Posted November 12 Share Posted November 12 Congrats. There are some quite pretty colours fyi 😀. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted November 12 Author Share Posted November 12 4 hours ago, ToughButterCup said: It may or may not be. You @Pocster are a legend. We all know that, you know that. But the BCO doesn't. Convince him of your legendary status as somebody who conserves energy - nervous energy - and just bloody does it instead of worrying about it. Better put JustBloodyDoIt - JBDI Get the wheelbarrow ! Why ? Got to get my extra large testies in there ! Legends aren’t born . They are made ! Party !! Legend ! 🍾🍷 Party on !!! L-E-G-E-N-D ! 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted November 12 Author Share Posted November 12 Thanks for all the help as always . Planning and building control is a lot of BS and box ticking . Play the game to win 🥇 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted November 12 Author Share Posted November 12 Thanks Mandy ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Paulie Posted November 12 Share Posted November 12 (edited) 2 hours ago, Pocster said: Just spoke to Rawlings . They won’t issue a certificate unless a professional contractor has applied it . Not for “ diy “ use …. thats weird, that never used to be the case at all. Still, good news on the sign off. Edited November 12 by Super_Paulie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandgmitchell Posted November 12 Share Posted November 12 6 hours ago, Conor said: What's the steel doing? Strictly only needs protection if it's supporting a means of escape. If the steel is or supports an element of structure then it needs protection. See para's 5.1 - 5.3 in AD B Part 1. Well in England anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted November 12 Share Posted November 12 27 minutes ago, kandgmitchell said: If the steel is or supports an element of structure then it needs protection. Which it is by a 30 min fire protection ceiling 🤷♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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