Redbeard Posted June 9 Posted June 9 OK, I have only used their all-wood offerings but I really rate Green Building Store (21 Degrees) windows. Their in-house fitters were really good too, though come 2021/22 they could only offer fitting in certain areas. I gather they have more sub-contract fitters now. Yes, according to the dictionary definition they are not specialists, but they have a specialist window section. I do not regard them as any less 'specialist' than those who concentrate on windows only.
Alan Ambrose Posted June 9 Posted June 9 I guess they're all just middlemen for a small number of factories. I wonder to what extent they add some design value and/or which have their own aluminium profiles. @craig - any thoughts?
craig Posted June 9 Posted June 9 We’re all middlemen for the main manufacturer, it boils down to how much the manufacturer supports the supplier or how much the supplier is interested in supporting the installers/end client. 1
Alan Ambrose Posted June 9 Posted June 9 Thanks, do, say, the companies that supply frames with dual weather seals have their own aluminium profile or are they just selecting a 'higher quality' profile from the factory? Are the middlemen adding their own window handles etc? Presumably there are at least a couple of factories, no?
marmic Posted June 9 Posted June 9 we're not as yet in contract but we will almost certainly be using Nordica - who use Viking and Slowinscy. We have decided on the latter. Transparency with regard to the manufacturter / actual product* They will be providing a deeper base to window to ensure adequate fall on extended sill. Extract from their proposals: 1* Frame packer 30x105mm (A30*105_40_M) Length 700 mm, color: Lacquer Regarding fall on sill there's nothing in building regs! Which are supposedly there to protect us - there is lots of good stuff in there, don't get me wrong, but there is lots of daft stuff (some ridiculous) in there too as we all know. But there are simple things missing too which is just as daft! Whilst talking to numerous people/companies i discovered not unusual for extended sills to end up flat / almost flat. Which in theory complies with regs - because there isn't one! Wouldn't suprise me if some end up running backwards perhaps!! * many UK suppliers rebrand and have found resistance by some in providing info and insist they are the manufacturer when they clearly aren't, but why I have no idea as this is not a problem! (I come accross this regularly in my day job, on the other side of the fence, with competitors doing the same and buying whatever they feel like to suit their margins!). With regard to who 21deg use I have no idea as didn't get very far - they didn't want to talk and didn't even bother to respond, and IMHO no point chasing people like that as my assumption is it's not going to get any better! Assume supply only too? Their other departments were somewhat mixed, some ok, but needless to say we won't be buying anything from them! Originally thought it could be a one stop shop and they'd be super keen with potentially one point of contact to reduce my stress levels! But alas not... ASHP/MVHR/PV we're procuring through heating engineer. Compac foam easier through UK distributor! 1
zzPaulzz Posted June 9 Posted June 9 7 hours ago, Alan Ambrose said: re: 21 degrees - any one a bit put off by the fact that they don't look like window specialists? That is, they do heat pumps, PV, MVHR etc. Impressed that they supply PHPP numbers though. 21degrees have been buying up smaller companies and putting them under one roof. I’d say they are struggling to integrate them into a true one stop shop. I am using them for windows and doors (Aluclad wood) and MVHR.
marmic Posted June 10 Posted June 10 moving on from the supply chain does anyone have a detail please for the reveals externally? We have flat boards with windows set back midspan of insulation and doors futher back on the structural stud with compacfoam at base. Battens and timber cladding to outside. Windows and doors fixed back to internal 140mm structural studs and sealed direct to boards - or am i missing something here? should they be lined first with membrane??? I don't think so but seems to a detail thats top secret! Timber frame company leaving openings covered by membrane to avoid ingress of rain whilst waiting for windows, so this won't be opened up until window fitters ready. Windows and doors will be fully sealed with air tight and precompressed tape etc. But doing some serious head scratching here how the connection is made at the outside to avoid moisture ingress into boards. Or am I overthinking it? Timber frame company / window installer all saying 'by others' - need to get this right! Also now thinking is there any risk of condensation under extended sills? extract of drawing and image example of intent herewith.............. any thoughts appreciated please.............kr ....mextract ref pro passiv to reveals.pdf
marmic Posted June 10 Posted June 10 and how membrane is cut /folded etc? need extra? drip detail at head behind membrane? + intumescent between battens.
Alan Ambrose Posted June 10 Posted June 10 I'm planning to have some custom sills made, probably powder coated stainless.
zzPaulzz Posted June 10 Posted June 10 I'm going to need some of that too. Do you have a supplier in mind?
craig Posted July 5 Posted July 5 Aluminium cills as above are available with push end caps but there’s not any suppliers in the UK that I’m aware of that make them. If you need any help with cills let me know.
Alan Ambrose Posted July 5 Posted July 5 @zzPaulzz - sorry I forgot to answer your question. I use a co called Alco Eng https://alcoengineering.co.uk for laser and bending sheet, usually stainless. And purpose powder coating https://www.purposepowdercoatings.com . But that’s largely out of habit and knowing they’ll deal with small (rather than industrial) quantities. I generally supply a design in pdf and dxf allowing for the bending characteristics, but I think Alco will do that bit too for a fee. I’m sure there are loads of other good companies too. 1
Roberto64 Posted July 23 Posted July 23 On 18/05/2025 at 08:33, marmic said: We have decided to use Nordica, supply and install inc air tightness and weather seals (we are building to passivhaus high performance). Will be placing order very soon. They use Viking and Slowinscy. We are going for the latter with Lumis windows. Less cost and performance fine. They also communicate on a human level and clearly know what they are doing. Will update here in Autumn.......... Nordan were close at one point using an approved partner to install, but completely lost confidence - we have thick walls with the windows being set central to the insulation therefore set back - which also reduces summer sun. Our openings are flat, no cavity - they just didn't get the need to increase the base of windows to enable a fall on the extended sills. and splitting the package creates blame issues if anything goes wrong. And they don't offer extended sills - these would have had to be supplied by installer. And we didn't want ply packing window up and ordering underheight to allow for fall - which was suggested! Supply only which we had considered: Some would have been absoutely fine had we decided to do it this way. But some quite the opposite! For example, 21deg didn't even bother sendng a quote and didn't want to have a conversation. Maybe they have more than enough business anyway and can be selective? We tried talking to them about other items too inc mvhr/pv (which they did respond on) as seemed sensible reducing number of suppliers and thought they would be super keen with added value but don't think they were bothered - separate contacts for each department and seemed rather disjointed. Had the impression there wasn't in depth knowledge either. Dismissed them mainly due to disinterest on windows/doors. We also decided supply and install anyway, also for pv/mvhr. Other supply and install offers which would have been fine simply wanted way too much money. Norrsken which gets lots of mentions seemed to initially tick the boxes on the surface with supply and install and had been recommended - but once i'd dug deeper these boxes were unticked. Uncomfortable exclusions and caveats such as weather seals/air tightness. Also mistakes on quote (which they didnt correct when flagged) and insisted they were manufacturers which i found annoying - they use Viking too as we all know and were expensive in comparision to others offering - yes rebranding is common in all industries and fine, but why lie when asked!! Sales chap arrogant - I think must have worked in double glazing in the 80's! I speak honestly and only as I find.............. be careful out there! Did you have sliding doors if so what kind of price were you quoted
marmic Posted July 23 Posted July 23 10 minutes ago, Roberto64 said: Did you have sliding doors if so what kind of price were you quoted no! sorry no idea...........
marmic Posted July 23 Posted July 23 13 minutes ago, marmic said: no! sorry no idea........... ps switched to viking in end due to lead times. we were held up placing orders due to other people/companies delaying us!
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