Monitioring hardware/software recommendations

[Dam0]

Hi all,

 

For those who have installed monitoring devices on their ASHP setup, what would you recommend? I've had a look online but alot of the equipment gets expensive quickly.. Are there any cheaper alternatives which give the basics such a energy useage, COP etc.. Any home brew options?

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

[JamesPa]

What ashp do you have.

 

Openenergymonitor and home assistant are both free software, any cost is the interface to the system which depends on the system you have.  Several native controllers give basic stats 

Edited Sunday at 11:07 by JamesPa

[Pocster]

+1 on home assistant. But be fair . If you find it useful ( which it is ) sign up and pay the 60 quid a year to support its development.

[JohnMo]

I have just installed this

https://shop.openenergymonitor.com/level-3-heat-pump-monitoring-bundle-emonhp/

 

Came already configured so all straightforward. Makes comparison test runs very easy to measure and understand. But not cheap.

 

[Dam0]

5 hours ago, JamesPa said:

What ashp do you have.

 

Openenergymonitor and home assistant are both free software, any cost is the interface to the system which depends on the system you have.  Several native controllers give basic stats 

Its an ideal logic air ashp. Plus a matching UVC and controller. Do you know if any of the monitoring software will work with this system?

 

Thanks

 

Thanks for the reccomndations. I love the idea of the level 3 monitoring but realistically I only need the basics.

[SteamyTea]

Have you thought of making your own?

[Dam0]

3 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Have you thought of making your own?

Where would i start? Cheers

[SteamyTea]

With a raspberry pi.

Some cheap 1wire temp sensors, a flow meter and something to read the electoral power input (see my blog).

 

[JohnMo]

1 hour ago, Dam0 said:

realistically I only need the basics.

Basics are

You need to be able to read instantaneous electric consumption in Watts, you need to be able to read flow rate and flow and return temps at the same time.

 

That will give you instantaneous CoP, with a few calculations. You need outside temp also.

 

It's better to able to log and see a period of time, as there are plenty of variables that for ever change.

 

Instantaneous CoP is useful, daily CoP is also useful, as is the CoP while running.

 

Your controller may give this info or most of it. It is normally to include everything in the system electrically in the inputs, so controller, pump, valves etc.

 

Exact numbers aren't that important, repeatable numbers are. You will be comparing your system to it's self with slight variations to settings.

 

Good CoP comes from

Lowest flow temp, but also from lowest cycle start temperature so the controller can the widest dT for as long as it can. Great CoP doesn't necessarily mean low running costs it a fine balance.

 

Heat pumps cycle especially at low loads, managing these cycles is useful to running costs

[SteamyTea]

22 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Your controller may give this info or most of it

These seem to give mixed results, especially with the electrical input numbers, which are critical.

[JamesPa]

All of the monitoring software will work, the challenge is to work out the cheapest way to get the data to it.  @JohnMohas set out the basics, so it's a case of how can you get at it?.

 

The data on your heat pump is sparse so I don't know what it provides natively (eg via some sort of bus), but that's the place to start.  

 

If you can't get anything out of the controller you need a flow/ water power meter such as sharky and others sell, an electrical power meter eg shelly, and temperature sensors for inside and outside.  These can then hook up to the software.  It's a bit of a pity this is needed, the heat pump controller 'knows' most of the figures, it's a case of whether it exposes them.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 18:10 by JamesPa

[SteamyTea]

16 minutes ago, JamesPa said:

the heat pump controller 'knows' most of the figures

Be interesting to start a thread on here about getting data out of heat pumps.

There are enough people, with different heat pumps, and a few people with good IT skills, should be possible to create a few basic packages that run on basic 'computers' and can store data.  Leave the analysis up to the people that are interested, just create some text files of say electrical usage, run times (with timestamps) mass flow rate, flow and return temperatures, room temperature and outside air temperature.

[Dam0]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

With a raspberry pi.

Some cheap 1wire temp sensors, a flow meter and something to read the electoral power input (see my blog).

 

I have a spare raspberry pi laying around actually so I'll read your blog and go from there. Thanks alot

37 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Basics are

You need to be able to read instantaneous electric consumption in Watts, you need to be able to read flow rate and flow and return temps at the same time.

 

That will give you instantaneous CoP, with a few calculations. You need outside temp also.

 

It's better to able to log and see a period of time, as there are plenty of variables that for ever change.

 

Instantaneous CoP is useful, daily CoP is also useful, as is the CoP while running.

 

Your controller may give this info or most of it. It is normally to include everything in the system electrically in the inputs, so controller, pump, valves etc.

 

Exact numbers aren't that important, repeatable numbers are. You will be comparing your system to it's self with slight variations to settings.

 

Good CoP comes from

Lowest flow temp, but also from lowest cycle start temperature so the controller can the widest dT for as long as it can. Great CoP doesn't necessarily mean low running costs it a fine balance.

 

Heat pumps cycle especially at low loads, managing these cycles is useful to running costs

I'm hoping the controller will at least give me daily CoP. It does have sensors on the flow and return plus an outdoor sensor for WC. Once it's in and booted up I think I'll dig a bit deeper into open open energy monitor and get something setup. Thanks for your reply, you've been really helpful.

 

13 minutes ago, JamesPa said:

All of the monitoring software will work, the challenge is to work out the cheapest way to get the data to it.  @JohnMohas set out the basics, so it's a case of how can you get at it?.

 

The data on your heat pump is sparse so I don't know what it provides natively (eg via some sort of bus), but that's the place to start.  

 

If you can't get anything out of the controller you need a flow/ water power meter such as sharky and others sell, an electrical power meter eg shelly, and temperature sensors for inside and outside.  These can then hook up to the software.  It's a bit of a pity this is needed, the heat pump controller 'knows' most of the figures, it's a case of whether it exposes them.

 

 

I have an installation manual but it doesn't mention much about the controller, other than for commissioning. Hopefully I can at least pull some data from there. Cheers

[SteamyTea]

8 minutes ago, Dam0 said:

I'll read your blog and go from there. Thanks alot

Feel free to improve the code and post it up.

[JohnMo]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

Be interesting to start a thread on here about getting data out of heat pumps.

Mine is easy - temperatures, flow, return and outside, that's it.

[Mr Blobby]

35 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Mine is easy - temperatures, flow, return and outside, that's it.

 

What flow meter do you use?  What do you use to read the data?

[JohnMo]

I use a Danfoss Sonometer heat meter, this is hooked up to a level 3 open energy monitor system.

 

https://shop.openenergymonitor.com/level-3-heat-pump-monitoring-bundle-emonhp/

 

All the configuration work was done for me by open energy monitor, their service was great.

[JohnMo]

15 hours ago, Dam0 said:

ideal logic air ashp

A quick look you get everything you need out the box. Last 3 items on the list

 

[Dam0]

On 16/09/2024 at 09:19, JohnMo said:

A quick look you get everything you need out the box. Last 3 items on the list

 

Incredible work. Thanks for taking the time to help.

[Jymmm]

I'd like the open energy stuff but is very expensive. 

 

I have a shelly EM in the consumer unit which monitors the power to the heatpump and i can access the data in home assistant.

 

Has anyone put a shelly inside the heatpump to monitor flow and return? Would need to 'borrow' a few mV from the heatpump power.

[JohnMo]

7 minutes ago, Jymmm said:

Has anyone put a shelly inside the heatpump to monitor flow and return?

You don't really need to be inside inside. Getting data out of a metal box maybe problematic. Somewhere close ish is fine, I was using Shelly add on to monitor at one point. You need to use either a thermo well or heat conductor paste and aluminium foil tape if externally on the pipe. The only issue is logging data intervals can be quite wide, so ok with a few measured data points. You also really need the electric data and temperatures time point to coincide to get reliable data points.

[Jymmm]

Good point John thanks