Is an individual STP worth the investment?

[jumbletons]

Hi all,

Long story short - 3 cottages, I'm the middle, share a septic tank in Cottage 3. This year I  learnt it doesn't meet regs (I bought the property in 2021 but the illegal nature of the septic tank wasn't flagged up by conveyancing solicitor). We agreed it needed replacing. NB my property deeds are COMPLEX! Old farm worker's cottage with lots of easements, rights of way, bits of land added, missing permissions, etc etc. So buying it was not a simple task, whereas my neighbours have never sold/bought either property on the open market so are unaware of the foibles of conveyancing (they're family and have lived here generations, so their properties were passed down and they don't like kindly on newbies like me upgrading by property...). 

 

Neighbours 1 and 3 have spent months trying to bully me into moving some or all of the system onto my property and refusing to replace the system like for like on their land (they don't want to dig up their garden, so would prefer for me to dig up mine). I have consistently declined moving anything to my land - I do not want the future hassle if any disputes (and if the system blocks, then I could get sewage pollution), nor the added complexity in my deeds. I have therefore looked into getting my own individual system. 

 

We have finally got down to 2 options:

1 - Continue status quo: cottage 3 have finally agreed to put in a shared system, on their land, for all 3 cottages (like I said months ago). They will request access for building work via my property, which involves taking out a piece of trellis, fence and a small vegetable plot. So, some upheaval for me. We will need a new easement. Cost TBC but obviously less than option 2

2 - I go individual, cottage 1 and 3 share. This means the old pipes crossing my garden will still be used by 1 so remain in situ. I will divert my pipes under them to a plant in my very small front garden, outflow will be pumped out (otherwise the whole thing will end up far too deep, as it's got 50m to go to reach my ditch!). We will need to alter the easement to release me from existing responsibilities towards the shared tank, and retain the pipe easement for no. 1. Cost will be about £8-10,000 more than option 1 (I live in the SE, I've had many quotes, and they're all this high! And no I can't DIY install because I have waaaaay too many other commitments)

 

I'm torn. The last few months has been truly awful, being in dispute with neighbours. It's opened my eyes to the horrors of sharing (and we still have plenty else that we share, like access road, driveway etc!). I also think some people will walk away from my property when it comes to selling (not planning on selling ever but you never know!), because of all the many foibles, but the shared septic system may be the final straw...

 

On the other hand, it seems mad not to share - it's cheaper, and I don't need to dig up my garden. However, I spent a year planning and putting up with chaos in my home to get it insulated, the conservatory updated, and green energy put in....it was a MASSIVE upheaval .....but I'm glad I did it. It adds to my quality of life, my peace of mind, and the value of my home. So I feel this could be a similar investment. 

 

What would you do???

 

(The individual system will be a Harlequin CAP6)

Edited August 8 by jumbletons
typos and clarification

[ProDave]

I would go for a new shared system but make sure it is a treatment plant, NOT a septic tank, and choose one that works with an air blower to agitate the contents, not the sort with rotating mechanical parts.

 

 

[JohnMo]

I would go it alone, no one putting bleach or other stuff to kill of the bacteria in the system blaming everyone else. Put muck munches in your system and almost never have to pump it out. Also treatment plants have a compressor that runs 24/7 so you need to meter this if you were going to split costs.

 

 

[ToughButterCup]

Ugh.... analogous problem here. Bottom line? Keep your soft and smelly stuff to yourself.

Why? If they are like that about this issue, they'll be like it about everything else.  Evidence? See posts above and almost every post on BH about shared resources in this context. 

Look at the garden dig as an opportunity to ..... 

 

And  ++++  when you sell and you are (still) in dispute about it you'll need to declare it ++++.

 

We  have shared drives, poop processors and lawns now twice in our life. Each time - initially - all was sweetness and light. Then someone moved out.....

Change eh? Everyone hates it. Frame it as a positive. 

[saveasteading]

Treatment tank on your own land sounds like the optimum.

A septic tank could not outfall to ditch anyway.

There are lots of sizes, including shallow.

[jumbletons]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

I would go for a new shared system but make sure it is a treatment plant, NOT a septic tank, and choose one that works with an air blower to agitate the contents, not the sort with rotating mechanical parts.

 

 

They will insist on a particular supplier, and a Klargester Biodisc.

 

they will not let me have input on who/what is installed. I tried to be consulted but it’s 2 against 1…

 

I don’t want a biodisc

[jumbletons]

1 hour ago, JohnMo said:

I would go it alone, no one putting bleach or other stuff to kill of the bacteria in the system blaming everyone else. Put muck munches in your system and almost never have to pump it out. Also treatment plants have a compressor that runs 24/7 so you need to meter this if you were going to split costs.

 

 

Thank you. They use bleach. We’re actually only a small frugal family we don’t even put animal

fat in the system, and I can see your point about taking good care of your own stuff!

[jumbletons]

1 hour ago, ToughButterCup said:

Ugh.... analogous problem here. Bottom line? Keep your soft and smelly stuff to yourself.

Why? If they are like that about this issue, they'll be like it about everything else.  Evidence? See posts above and almost every post on BH about shared resources in this context. 

Look at the garden dig as an opportunity to ..... 

 

And  ++++  when you sell and you are (still) in dispute about it you'll need to declare it ++++.

 

We  have shared drives, poop processors and lawns now twice in our life. Each time - initially - all was sweetness and light. Then someone moved out.....

Change eh? Everyone hates it. Frame it as a positive. 

Yeah this is my worry 😂We share enough other bits and pieces!

[Redbeard]

Go for your own TP. Effectively you have already told us why you need to. One fewer thing to bite you in the future.

[jumbletons]

9 minutes ago, Redbeard said:

Go for your own TP. Effectively you have already told us why you need to. One fewer thing to bite you in the future.

Thanks! I don't like the upheaval and expense, and feel like I'm cutting off my nose to spite my face....but in the future my nose might be grateful to be free from my face 😆

[ToughButterCup]

41 minutes ago, jumbletons said:

...

they will not let me have input on who/what

...

 

Move.

A house isn't a home if every time you look at it and its surroundings, you see issues that you need to placate. I mean you might as well have the MIL next door. 

[saveasteading]

Another thing is change. Selling will bd easier if it is your own. Neighbours change too. Could get worse.

Will you need building regs?

 

And you control the spec, contractor, price, maintenance.

[jumbletons]

39 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

 

Move.

A house isn't a home if every time you look at it and its surroundings, you see issues that you need to placate. I mean you might as well have the MIL next door. 

This made me laugh! I definitely wint

move, this is my dream

come true property and I have an amazing home and life here (plus in three years I’ve put a lot of work into building hen runs, duck runs, compost bays, water collection tanks, fencing, working on compost toilet etc…!)…but when you’re in the middle of an extended family who’ve lived her for 4 generations, you have to be able to stand up for yourself 😂

Edited August 8 by jumbletons

[jumbletons]

22 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Another thing is change. Selling will bd easier if it is your own. Neighbours change too. Could get worse.

Will you need building regs?

 

And you control the spec, contractor, price, maintenance.

Yes I prefer to control my own essentials! Yes I’ll need building regs and that’s something the installer will sort

[saveasteading]

I have used Marsh Industries tanks 3 times, and always sucessfully.

Their design advice is straight forward. I like the compactness esp shallowness.

The only moving part is a tiny air pump like on an aquarium.

The outfall may have to be negotiated but a pragmatic bco should be OK.

[ProDave]

3 hours ago, jumbletons said:

They will insist on a particular supplier, and a Klargester Biodisc.

 

they will not let me have input on who/what is installed. I tried to be consulted but it’s 2 against 1…

 

I don’t want a biodisc

That is the very last one I would want.  You don't want to be the person replacing a jammed gearbox in that, and neither does anybody else.

 

So I guess it's go it alone, BUT that relies on you having enough of your own land to do that, access to that land to get a digger in, and access to somewhere to discharge it to.

 

If you need consent from your neighbours for any of that, then it is going to get difficult.

[jumbletons]

5 minutes ago, ProDave said:

 

 

So I guess it's go it alone, BUT that relies on you having

-enough of your own land to do that,

-access to that land to get a digger in, and

-access to somewhere to discharge it to.

 

If you need consent from your neighbours for any of that, then it is going to get difficult.

Good points. My land is weirdly laid out, but yes the installer is happy he can install it in my front garden, then dig outflow through driveway (owned by me, neighbour has access rights) and my fields, to my ditch, so no need to go via neighbours. 

[ProDave]

2 minutes ago, jumbletons said:

Good points. My land is weirdly laid out, but yes the installer is happy he can install it in my front garden, then dig outflow through driveway (owned by me, neighbour has access rights) and my fields, to my ditch, so no need to go via neighbours. 

You need to be sure it will fit in the front garden allowing for all legal distances to buildings, boundaries etc, and you have permission from the EA to discharge to the ditch.

[jumbletons]

19 minutes ago, ProDave said:

You need to be sure it will fit in the front garden allowing for all legal distances to buildings, boundaries etc, and you have permission from the EA to discharge to the ditch.

Hmm, installer says:

if we discharge within 10m of existing discharge point we don’t need a new permit.

my garden is max 5m, then there’s driveway, then some more of my land. However if neighbours want to keep their drains in use that cross my land, I have to go under them, so if it went all the way to a tank on the opposite end of the driveway, it’s been veeeeery deep 😬🤔He says those rules are outdated and open to interpretation because what if you don’t have 7m long garden. 

the company has a good reputation and he’s answered a thousand questions from me, so he’s my preferred installer…I did have a quote from

another one that would site a Marsh in the orchard opposite the driveway but not sure he knew about the pipes in the way. 
 

hmm tricky 🤔Having the neighbours I have, I need everything to be EXACTLY by the book!! Maybe this company is a bit too “just get it done” in attitude 

[ProDave]

You WILL need to check building regs before you go ahead. And sorry I am not up to speed with English regs, but in Scotland, a treatment plant must be 5 metres from a building, 5 metres from a boundary and 10 metres from a watercourse and you WILL need a building warrant to fit one.  If your front garden is only 5 metres wide I don't see it being allowed there even if it would physically fit.

 

but you talk about your field, so why not run the foul waste pipe under your garden, under your drive and into your field where you should have plenty of room to fit the treatment plant there?

 

A sketch of your site layout would help.

 

If the company is suggesting something that may not meet building regs then choose a different company.

[jumbletons]

33 minutes ago, ProDave said:

You WILL need to check building regs before you go ahead. And sorry I am not up to speed with English regs, but in Scotland, a treatment plant must be 5 metres from a building, 5 metres from a boundary and 10 metres from a watercourse and you WILL need a building warrant to fit one.  If your front garden is only 5 metres wide I don't see it being allowed there even if it would physically fit.

 

but you talk about your field, so why not run the foul waste pipe under your garden, under your drive and into your field where you should have plenty of room to fit the treatment plant there?

 

A sketch of your site layout would help.

 

If the company is suggesting something that may not meet building regs then choose a different company.

Yes I’ve specified that building regs must be OK with the plan first. Thank you, I’ll look into it further. Don’t want to make an expensive mistake!

[saveasteading]

3 hours ago, jumbletons said:

to my ditch,

 

Building this to the letter of the building regulations can be limiting.  BUT it is my experience that the BCO doesn't know the rules on final disposal, or (like me) thinks they are silly and can be replaced by a ditch or simple soakaway. (The quantity of liquid daily is low).   Make sure.

 

For examples, in one case (England)  I found that water in a copse simply disappeared, so I pointed the outfall in there.....accepted and works still, or I would hear about it.

In another (Scotland) we were building a big drainage field as regulations.   Digger driver said he had installed 20 tanks and only ever with  a rubble soakaway. So we never installed the second half of the field.

[ProDave]

12 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Building this to the letter of the building regulations can be limiting.  BUT it is my experience that the BCO doesn't know the rules on final disposal, or (like me) thinks they are silly and can be replaced by a ditch or simple soakaway. (The quantity of liquid daily is low).   Make sure.

It can be very variable.  My building warrant was delayed several weeks while we tried to find an acceptable drainage solution, only solved when SEPA finally said why not discharge to the burn.  But then when we installed the treatment plant, BC were notified and did not want to inspect any part of that.  All they were interested in was inspecting and pressure testing the drain pipe leading from the house to the TP.

[joe90]

I am another for your own STP. I would not touch a biodisc with a barge pole, go it alone.

[jumbletons]

Update - My choice is:

- shared system with outflow drain on my land. Neighbours unwilling to pay for new easement (just want to update existing with informal signed letter, not update deeds), so solicitor costs on me if they agree to me getting a solicitor to write a new one. Will be Klargester biodisc. Will likely pay 1/3rd costs despite contributing 1/4 towards system size but TBC. 

- individual system; more cost, more upheaval, more input, more independence...If I go individual I will be using a company who does everything very 'by the book' to protect myself, and use a Marsh system which I'm happy with. 

 

I'll update once there's any progress but awaiting a legal letter from the neighbour now 😕 Hoping it just says they're serving notice that the tank will be decommissioned in 1 year's time, as we all agreed...