Octopus Zero Bills

[Stones]

20 hours ago, G and J said:

So, I’m wondering whether this is about distributed storage paid for by the house buyer.  Octopus would like to store umpteen mWhours but can’t afford the investment.  So they bribe homeowners to pay for and house loads of little batteries….

 

Sort of.  I think this is the real plan:

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/07/11/chinese-electric-cars-to-power-your-home-in-octopus-deal/#:~:text=A Chinese electric car maker,parked in their driveway...

 

You can just imagine how the conversation went - Minister, if we prohibit the sale of ICE and force everyone to buy electric cars and we tell people to plug them in to get a 'discount' on their electricity bills, that gives us 33 million x 60 kWh of storage, which is nearly 2000 GWh of storage, which gives us 40 days of energy security even if we generate nothing for a few days.  And the best part is, it won't cost us a thing, the public will pay without even realising.  Even better we'll finally be able to introduce road pricing and increase revenue from that.  Minister, this will transform our country, and you'll go down in history with a legacy few will ever surpass.

 

Whilst there are obvious flaws to such a plan, you could see how a politician would get on board with such a vision.  Nothing wrong of course with the idea of using your car as a power bank.  Whether its better for the grid vs distributed storage at local / household level is a different question.

[Pocster]

Must limit consumption per household ; otherwise you could fill your boots . Good concept though .

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, Stones said:

60 kW of storage

 

1 hour ago, Stones said:

obvious flaw

 

[Stones]

Indeed. Storage is of course measured in kWh. 

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, Stones said:

Indeed. Storage is of course measured in kWh. 

Or multiples of joules, which is what we should really use, then there is no confusion.

[Alan Ambrose]

Or calories  - there, that reduces the confusion...

Edited July 13 by Alan Ambrose

[G and J]

4 minutes ago, Alan Ambrose said:

Or calories  - there, that reduces the confusion...

How about we invent a device that turns excess body fat into electricity.  I’d not have to import any leccy for years!   🙂

[SteamyTea]

8 minutes ago, Alan Ambrose said:

Or calories

Which calories though?

2 minutes ago, G and J said:

How about we invent a device that turns excess body fat into electricity

Called a crematorium with CHP.

[Marvin]

On 12/07/2024 at 20:03, G and J said:

No response to my email from the eight legged sea creature

😂

[joe90]

3 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

Called a crematorium with CHP.

Now thats a really good idea. 

[SteamyTea]

Just now, joe90 said:

3 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

Called a crematorium with CHP.

Now thats a really good idea. 

Green burial probably releases less CO_2e

[G and J]

So, an update.  Today I got an answer back from the sea monster:
 

 

 

I’m still trying to get spec info.   Anything I do get I’ll share. 

 

[Little_Miss_Tidy]

I've been having a (very slow) conversation with Charlotte from Octopus over the last few months, so thought I'd post an update in case anyone is interested.

 

She says the scheme is open to self-builders (not just big developers), though none had signed up when I asked.  We're not going to be signing up either: having seen our SAP (for a 250 sqm house whose fabric will exceed building regs requirements) she says we'll need over 17 MWh/year PV capacity - which our budget will not stretch to, never mind that I don't think our roof is big enough!

 

I also found out (by pure coincidence, due to an error by our energy assessor) that houses with electric showers are not eligible for Zero Bills.  I don't know what other hidden rules they have - she'd never mentioned this to me before.

 

But in general, what I had gleaned was this:

• The house has to have solar PV panels, a battery, a heat pump and no gas connection.
• The battery has to be an approved brand (there were five options when I spoke to her), because they will need to control it remotely.
• The heat pump and EV charger would ideally also be approved brands, but that’s not compulsory (you just have to install more solar panels and/or pay a higher EV tariff if you don’t use approved brands).
• The fair usage policy is calculated as double the expected annual electricity usage of an average similarly-sized house – and if you exceed it (their example was due to a hot tub), you’re charged at a fairly cheap rate and no standing charge.  I was unable to ascertain whether this "average similarly-sized house" had electric or gas heating though...
• They specify the size of the solar PV array you need to install, based on the house plans and SAPs you submit to them for review. (And if you can’t fit enough on the roof, then you’re simply not eligible.)

[SteamyTea]

EDF are offering free electricity on some Sundays.

Except it isn't free at all. It is a swap scheme i.e. use less at a certain time and get a bit back.

I did not bother to read into the details too much.

Not as if I can realistically use less without investing a few thousand.

[Little_Miss_Tidy]

 

10 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

EDF are offering free electricity on some Sundays.

Except it isn't free at all.

 

Octopus do free electricity sometimes too - and it's genuinely free.  Since they launched it in August 2023, we've had 109 sessions, usually 2-3 hours long.  They only give less than 24 hours' notice but we've managed to use 1.2 MWh during those sessions (by charging the battery, shifting the washing machine and dishwasher to run in those windows, etc.).

 

I think this sort of initiative is much more attractive to me than the prospect of installing an insanely large PV array!

[SteamyTea]

2 minutes ago, Little_Miss_Tidy said:

we've managed to use 1.2 MWh

And there is the problem for me, that is a third of my annual electrical usage, I just can't shift that much without spending more than it is worth.

Octopus will stop that 'incentive' and replace it with another.

There is no such thing as a free lunch: divide your total annual bill by the kWh consumed, then see what the real unit price is.

[Little_Miss_Tidy]

My goodness you're a cynic, aren't you!

 

Our total electricity import since August 2023 has been 2.5 MWh (which includes the fact that I run 3 kW kiln for my fused glass art).  Of that, 1.2 MWh has been free.  (I hadn't looked up that stat before - I'm pleasantly surprised to discover that nearly half our imported electricity has been free!)  Some of it is not electricity we would otherwise have used - for example, we'll switch on the immersion heater during the free periods (which saves us some gas) - but that's rather hard to quantify so I haven't tried to factor in those savings.  During that time, we've been on normal Octopus tariffs - there's no requirement to be on a special (more expensive) tariff to get access to the free periods (Power Ups, as they call them), they're just open to everyone.

 

So while I agree they will at some point stop this scheme, for now it's a good thing.  And since I also agree they're likely to replace it with another "incentive" (which may or may not deserve the inverted commas), I'm happy to "risk" not going for Zero Bills and assume I can do at least as well for myself without spending a fortune on an excessive number of solar panels.

 

Anyway, I'll sign off now and leave you to your cynicism.  I only came on here to give an update on my findings on the Zero Bills scheme, since that's why I'd started this thread in the first place.