Getting broadband/WiFi to my garage.

[Russdl]

I want to extend my broadband/WiFi about 20m from the house to the garage. Poor planning on my part means I only have one duct going there from the house which will house a 10mm2 cable for power to the garage and I’m guessing that putting a CAT6 cable alongside that for 20m would not be a good thing?
 

Is ‘point to point’ WiFi (WiFi bridge) the answer? It looks like a neat solution but I don’t see any mention of it here. 

[Mattg4321]

Running them through the same duct whilst not ideal will work fine. Just make sure they’re pulled together and use at least external duct grade cat 6, if not swa. 
 

Look at EVUltra cable and that works with no ill effects. 

[JohnMo]

I have WiFi in the summer house which about 25m away. I use the plugs you stick in at both ends, one end connected to router. Seems to work just fine. People will say it needs to be on the same circuit, but mine goes through 3 consumer units and still works fine.

[Russdl]

  On 18/06/2024 at 05:50, Mattg4321 said:

Look at EVUltra cable and that works with no ill effects. 

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Well I never! Thanks for that pointer, never heard of such a thing but the demand for such a product is obvious I guess. 
 

  On 18/06/2024 at 06:43, JohnMo said:

I use the plugs you stick in at both ends, one end connected to router.

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That’s a very straight forward solution that I never even considered! 

[garrymartin]

If you only have one duct, containing power already, I wouldn't run a CATx cable through it. If nothing else, it would be against electrical regulations unless (like the EV-Ultra cable) the power conductors and data cables are rated to the same nominal voltage. EV-Ultra is also a single cable, so depending on how much space you have in your duct, you'd have to pull your existing power cable back out. It's also not cheap...

 

Powerline-type adapters that use electrical circuits to carry the network data can work in some circumstances and may well be the cheapest option. You could probably order some off Amazon and return them if they didn't work.

 

Personally, if I couldn't run a physical cable, I'd turn to the wireless point-to-point bridges, but in the first instance, I'd just test an external WiFi Access Point. You'll probably find you can get coverage in a garage at 20m away quite easily from a decent outdoor access point.

[ToughButterCup]

  On 18/06/2024 at 05:50, Mattg4321 said:

Running them through the same duct whilst not ideal will work fine. Just make sure they’re pulled together and use at least external duct grade cat 6, if not swa. 
 

Look at EVUltra cable and that works with no ill effects. 

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Really interesting - nudged me into searching for EV  Ultra cable - and found this

 

  Quote

....
BASEC  EV-ULTRA IS NOW BASEC APPROVED.

As there is no recognised British Standard for these types of cables it leaves installers in a very difficult situation. When installing a cable that is not manufactured to a national or international standard.

BS7671 states that where equipment is not covered by a British or Harmonised Standard the responsibility to ensure an adequate degree of safety rests with the installer and/or specifier.

Full third party accreditation from BASEC is an ideal solution to ensuring the product's specification meets necessary safety and performance requirements.

We are proud to offer this innovative cable, along with third party accreditation that allows installers to easily demonstrate its suitability without having to take on the personal responsibility of this decision.
The positive feedback from the BASEC Data Laboratory manager where they explained that 'the data
properties of the cable had exceeded all expectations' is a true credit to the hard work of our Research and Development team, demonstrating that the BASEC accreditation process has added value to the product  for the installer to demonstrate quality and conformity.

...

https://www.doncastercables.com/cables/17/77/EV-Ultra/EV-Ultra------Power---Data-Combined/  Downloaded 18/06/24

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I love the idea. It makes sense. But why isn't it properly approved (yet) ?

How might a Part P qualified electrician view the statement above ?

And how might an insurer view a claim from me when - through no fault of the cable, a fire destroys my (as yet to be built) workshop ?  From bitter experience I have come to know that insurers will climb through the thinnest eye of the thinnest needle to avoid considering any reasonable claim.

 

PS very interesting thread @Russdl

[Russdl]

@ToughButterCup thanks for that bit of research, I’d better check with the electrician if an EV Ultra cable is acceptable (just when you think the water is clearing, someone throws some mud in it 🤣)

[Russdl]

  On 18/06/2024 at 08:33, garrymartin said:

you'd have to pull your existing power cable back out.

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There’s no cable at the moment, just the one duct to take a future cable. 
 

  On 18/06/2024 at 08:33, garrymartin said:

I'd turn to the wireless point-to-point bridges, but in the first instance, I'd just test an external WiFi Access Point.

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I think that may well be the first plan of attack. Waiting to hear back from the electrician about the EV Ultra cable after Ian’s discovery. 

[garrymartin]

  On 18/06/2024 at 10:09, Russdl said:

Waiting to hear back from the electrician about the EV Ultra cable after Ian’s discovery. 

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If you go that route, just bear in mind that there are multiple types of EV-Ultra cable and you'll want the 4-core CAT5 version preferably, not the 2-core. It comes in 4mm2, 6mm2, 10mm2, and 16mm2 from an electrical perspective so should be fine for a garage.

 

Also, you'd potentially be pre-wired for any future electric vehicle charger! 😉

 

[billt]

There are 2 point to point wi-fi links here using TP-Link CPE210s. One's to the front gate about 45M away for 2 IP cameras and ones to a pump house about 30M away.. Once setup they have been completely reliable for the 3 years they've been working.

[Jenki]

I put a KuWfi link (wireless bridge) in for a neighbour to share his Broadband to his rental cottage 300M away, works fantastically.  Only issue is power cuts as sometimes the handshake is lost and needs the slave switching on 30 secs after the master.

I'll use the same to run a Lambing camera into the barn later this year.

[Russdl]

  On 18/06/2024 at 10:13, garrymartin said:

Also, you'd potentially be pre-wired for any future electric vehicle charger! 😉

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Spookily enough that’s exactly what I want it for. The electrician told me:

 

“…it would benefit from two CAT5/6 ideally. One to hard wire into Ethernet if available and the other for the comms to the current clamps.”

 

Some of the above I understand. Plus he tells me I need 10mm2 for the garage so a plan is taking shape. 
 

  On 18/06/2024 at 10:24, billt said:

There are 2 point to point wi-fi links here using TP-Link CPE210s.

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  On 18/06/2024 at 10:36, Jenki said:

 

I put a KuWfi link (wireless bridge) in for a neighbour to share his Broadband to his rental cottage 300M away, works fantastically.

 

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So they do exist 😃

 

Two days ago I’d never heard of such a thing and I was surprised that a search of BuildHub produced no mention of them. 

[Alan Ambrose]

As an alternative, I can't think there would be a problem running two or more SWA cables (e.g. one power, one network) in the same duct. Yeah, theoretically heating if there were two power cables, but you're unlikely to be doing that. 

[Post and beam]

Fibre?

[SteamyTea]

Mobile wireless hotspot

[Mattg4321]

  On 18/06/2024 at 08:33, garrymartin said:

If you only have one duct, containing power already, I wouldn't run a CATx cable through it. If nothing else, it would be against electrical regulations unless (like the EV-Ultra cable) the power conductors and data cables are rated to the same nominal voltage. EV-Ultra is also a single cable, so depending on how much space you have in your duct, you'd have to pull your existing power cable back out. It's also not cheap...

 

Powerline-type adapters that use electrical circuits to carry the network data can work in some circumstances and may well be the cheapest option. You could probably order some off Amazon and return them if they didn't work.

 

Personally, if I couldn't run a physical cable, I'd turn to the wireless point-to-point bridges, but in the first instance, I'd just test an external WiFi Access Point. You'll probably find you can get coverage in a garage at 20m away quite easily from a decent outdoor access point.

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I can't think of any regulation this would be against, assuming both cables were SWA. It's not ideal, as you could in theory get interference, but the reality is it will be absolutely fine over this distance in a domestic situation.

 

 

  On 18/06/2024 at 08:51, ToughButterCup said:

 

Really interesting - nudged me into searching for EV  Ultra cable - and found this

 

 

I love the idea. It makes sense. But why isn't it properly approved (yet) ?

How might a Part P qualified electrician view the statement above ?

And how might an insurer view a claim from me when - through no fault of the cable, a fire destroys my (as yet to be built) workshop ?  From bitter experience I have come to know that insurers will climb through the thinnest eye of the thinnest needle to avoid considering any reasonable claim.

 

PS very interesting thread @Russdl

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If it's approved by BASEC that carries significant weight, as they are 'the' accreditation body for cable. EVUItra and other brands are in very widespread use now, it's nothing unusual. I've used it a load of times myself and never heard of anyone having problems specific to it.

[garrymartin]

  On 18/06/2024 at 20:47, Mattg4321 said:

I can't think of any regulation this would be against, assuming both cables were SWA. It's not ideal, as you could in theory get interference, but the reality is it will be absolutely fine over this distance in a domestic situation.

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I did say "it would be against electrical regulations unless (like the EV-Ultra cable) the power conductors and data cables are rated to the same nominal voltage". So long as your two SWA cables are rated to the same nominal voltage, then sure, it would be acceptable.

 

See https://professional-electrician.com/features/ev-charging-installations-why-two-power-and-data-cables-has-now-become-one/ for further information. BS 7671 and BS 6701 are the guides.

 

[Russdl]

  On 18/06/2024 at 19:34, SteamyTea said:

 

Mobile wireless hotspot

 

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It’s going to have to be more permanent than that, especially if I get an EV charger.