Plumbing manifold location

[Mr Blobby]

Another day, another surprise on the site.

 

Plumber was doing first fix running mlcp pipes into the plantroom where the manifolds and UVC will live.  I had to leave the site to go to some other commitments.  Never a good idea.

 

Drawings are like this:

 

 

... with the manifold and plumbing deliberately placed on the accessible side of the UVC. 

The room is 1100 wide and with a proposed 400l tank of diameter 750 then only a small child will squeeze behind ithe UVC.  (the external door is replaced with an internal door on the far right of the drawing)

 

To my surprise the plumber has run all the pipes (and trimmed them) to the outside wall behind the future UVC.  Where he thinks the manifold will go but it will be inaccessible unless it is high up above the top of the cyclinder.

While this looks ok now without any UVC installed, I thought it would be bleedin obvious that when the cylinder is installed then the manifold would be hidden behind it and perhaps more difficult to plumb. 

 

Before I raise this with the plumber, is there anything wrong with putting the manifold on that wall behind the UVC.  I;m no plumber so maybe I;m missing something hrere.

Maybe the intention is to have the manifold up high where long arms and a step ladder may be able to reach it.  And run pipes from the front of the cylinder to the back. 

That just sounds like a far worse option than having accessible plumbing in front of the UVC.  Is it? Does my plumber know something I don't or is this a bit of a bollox?

 

 

 

Edited May 2 by Mr Blobby

[ProDave]

You have to show him the drawing, and get him to explain why it is not according to the drawing.

[Mr Blobby]

14 minutes ago, ProDave said:

You have to show him the drawing, and get him to explain why it is not according to the drawing.

 

Yes, maybe as a skilled tradesman he has a very good reason for hiding the manifold behind the planned UVC that is not obvious to the layperson. 🤔😬

 

Edited May 2 by Mr Blobby

[Nickfromwales]

IIRC this is just a plant room and not for storage / otherwise to be preserved 'space-wise' (that side of the room)? If so, then they should be as per the plan.

In honesty, if the manifolds can be reached, eg they're installed above the UVC in the dead space, then the plumber may have been attempting to do the right thing and use up otherwise dead space.

 

Reality-check time.

 

How many times per decade do you expect to need to access these things, turn on / off supplies, or otherwise "fettle"? The plumbers will get in to fire up spaces as the become plumbed in and live, and after that.....?

[ProDave]

9 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

In honesty, if the manifolds can be reached, eg they're installed above the UVC in the dead space, then the plumber may have been attempting to do the right thing and use up otherwise dead space.

But I would not change the agreed layout without first discussing it with the customer.

[Nickfromwales]

2 hours ago, ProDave said:

But I would not change the agreed layout without first discussing it with the customer.

Agreed, but they've not yet been asked what the plan is?

[SimonD]

13 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

How many times per decade do you expect to need to access these things, turn on / off supplies, or otherwise "fettle"? The plumbers will get in to fire up spaces as the become plumbed in and live, and after that.....?

 

In my mind, it isn't about how often you expect to go in there but whether you have access when something goes wrong.

 

I recently did a repair in a newbuild with full UFH throughout. I was searching and searching for both the ground floor manifold and wiring centre only to eventually find they were sitting right behind a 500l cylinder. The clever builder had clearly put the cylinder in place before finishing the framing for the door so the cylinder wouldn't fit through the doorway. So I explained to the customer that any repair would require fully removing the cylinder, but first the whole doorway would have to be demolished.

 

 

1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

Agreed, but they've not yet been asked what the plan is?

A plumber really shouldn't be ignoring the plans without first talking to the customer and it shouldn't be for the customer to ask the plumber what the alternative plan is going to be. It should all be done in advance before any work commences.

 

[Nickfromwales]

25 minutes ago, SimonD said:

 

In my mind, it isn't about how often you expect to go in there but whether you have access when something goes wrong.

 

I recently did a repair in a newbuild with full UFH throughout. I was searching and searching for both the ground floor manifold and wiring centre only to eventually find they were sitting right behind a 500l cylinder. The clever builder had clearly put the cylinder in place before finishing the framing for the door so the cylinder wouldn't fit through the doorway. So I explained to the customer that any repair would require fully removing the cylinder, but first the whole doorway would have to be demolished.

 

 

A plumber really shouldn't be ignoring the plans without first talking to the customer and it shouldn't be for the customer to ask the plumber what the alternative plan is going to be. It should all be done in advance before any work commences.

 

Yup, and yup, but I blame the project manager anyway @Mr Blobby 😜. 
When the cat’s away, eh?

 

For completeness, I am currently mid install on a build in Gravenhill, and I’m putting the manifolds up and over the cylinder there, to maximise the residual ‘airing cupboard’ space.

 

Extending your right arm over the cylinder isn’t exactly difficult, albeit you may need a small hop-up if you’re a short-arse, but as this plant room (the OP’s) is sizeable I doubt there’s the same concern.

If the ceiling height is 2400mm or thereabouts, then there should be plenty of room up / over / around the top of the cylinder. 
 

Putting the UFH manifold behind an UVC and making a cupboard around it is not really what anyone expects here, and that job clearly wasn’t ‘managed’ at all.

 

I’m still finding massive f*ck-ups on another client build in Leicester, gifts left from a quintessential cowboy builder long since dishonourably discharged, and his utter lack of care or consequence is staggering.
 

Anyone considering a build in Leicester is herby invited to PM me to ask which skill-free, clueless donut it is that you need avoid. He’s still ‘at large’ and his website is (was) very attractive, just nothing on it that he’d actually built ffs. Not even 1st year apprentice bad, but malicious, damaging actions which they knowingly covered over to deceive and defraud. Shocking. 

[SimonD]

22 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

albeit you may need a small hop-up if you’re a short-arse

 

Not that I think I'm a short-arse but I already find myself on one of these a lot of the time. One of the best tools I have. It hangs permanently on my service bag:

 

[Mr Blobby]

I guess my concern with the manifold plumbing moved behind the tank is the repairs after the install.  Not being a plumber then maybe I don't see what the plumber sees as the final solution. 

Maybe all the pipework connections and joins will be accessible with no joins/valves hidden behind the UVC.  Otherwise the plumber will need the arms of an octopus and the eyes of a wasp to connect up pipes the other side of the tank. 

 

As long as everything can be accessed and maintained in the years to come without the need to remove the tank then all's good. 

If however the plumber has assumed a small 150l tank that won't obstruct the manifold plumbing then we may have a problem 😬

[Nickfromwales]

As PM, you’ve of course told the chap exactly how tall and wide the cylinder is, haven’t you……

[Mr Blobby]

On 03/05/2024 at 14:43, Nickfromwales said:

As PM, you’ve of course told the chap exactly how tall and wide the cylinder is, haven’t you……

 

The 400 litre tank was specified in the same diagram as the manifold location drawing that was largely ignored 🙄

I have learned from this experience never to assume the trades will read plans or listen or understand airtightness or do the obvious.  I think line paint is my best friend from now on.

 

Anyways, I spoke to the plumber and the manifold is now being relocated to the inner wall.  He did of course assume a 300l max tank and says he's never seen a 400 litre tank. 

I wouldn't describe the plumber's mood as delighted but he is moving the manifold to the internal wall.  And that's the main thing.

 

Plumber also tried to talk me into a split ashp instead of a monoblock again but that's another story.  Says monoblocks get locked in defrost cycles they can't escape.  I remained steadfast.😬

Edited May 7 by Mr Blobby

[markocosic]

1 hour ago, Mr Blobby said:

I think line paint is my best friend from now on.

 

If it can't be explained using crayons then it being beyond most domestic trades isn't an unreasonable working assumption!

 

My wife would say that's very nice now start again and build as per the drawing. Then offer to compromise on the understanding that they now owe you and are not to repeat this independent thinking malarkey again. 🤣

[joe90]

2 hours ago, Mr Blobby said:

never to assume

Says it all ……….