Fixing wall starter kits and ledger board to perforated facing bricks

[Stu84]

Hi everyone. First post here. Great to be part of this friendly forum, lots of amazing info.

 

I'm designing my own small side extension. A lean-to 4x3m.

 

Looking to use wall starter kits and a ledger board to hold the rafters. Only thing is my bricks are vertically perforated, not solid right through. It's a 90s house so they aren't soft, but I don't know the brick type nor their compressive strength (more compressive strength = better resistance to anchor breaking through the side of the brick under load)

 

The chemical anchors by Fischer seem on paper like a good option. This involves inserting a plastic sleeve with holes. You fill with resin which expands through the holes of the sleeve and push threaded bar in. I guess the resin bonds to bits of brick/mortar and also increases pull-out surface area. 

 

Anybody have any experience of this type of anchor in perforated facing bricks?

 

Other ideas welcome. I'm trying to avoid tooth brickwork. I suppose I could replace a number of bricks with solid ones, but it would be quite a number all said and told.

 

I'm hoping the wall starters don't take much load. Aren't they mainly to resist wind loading? It's the ledger board and roof weight I'm more concerned about.

 

Thanks all

 

Stuart

[Canski]

Or fix your wall starters to the bed joints. Better fixing in my opinion. 

[markc]

Chem anchors with sleeves are brilliant in bricks or blocks with holes 

[Stu84]

That's a thought. Would building control be happy? Do the instructions that come with the kits say bed joints OK?

 

Thank you

[Stu84]

That's what I was hoping to hear markc.

 

I'm probably overthinking it but the Fischer loadings (they have lots of useful documents) assume a certain compressive strength of brick. I've read on a different post that if you can't positively identify your brick type then you have to assume a very low compressive strength... lower than what Fischer used for their experiments.

 

Any idea whether all bricks of a certain age (i.e. post 1970s for example) can just be assumed to have have a certain minimum compressive strength? 

 

Thanks for replies 

[Russell griffiths]

You can get the perforated sleeves in stainless mesh also. 
many makes not just fisher. 

[Stu84]

40 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

You can get the perforated sleeves in stainless mesh also. 
many makes not just fisher. 

Ideal. Think best thing I can do is stick one in the wall and give it a pull! Or trying to find a matching brick and experiment. Thank you.

[saveasteading]

42 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

many makes not just fisher. 

But I would use Fischer or another recognised brand.

This is standard procedure in countries where the bricks have as much air as clay.

[Stu84]

26 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

But I would use Fischer or another recognised brand.

This is standard procedure in countries where the bricks have as much air as clay.

Thank you for info. Yes, it seems common practice in EU. Tricky thing is their brick size/patterns don't match ours. The Fischer strength tests are with these European bricks, so it's kind of guess work to assume the same strengths can be achieved with UK perforated bricks.

 

Just had a quick chat with friendly local building control. He was surprised that my house had bricks with holes in them, said vast majority of houses just had the frogs. He was indifferent about chemical anchors. His main suggestion was to get in contact with the starter kit manufacturers and get their advise regarding perforated bricks.  In relation to fixing a ledger board, think I'd better consult a SE.

 

Is there a favourite starter kit manufacturer out there? 

[Russell griffiths]

Get a 600 mm piece of 200x 48

fix it to the wall with two resin anchors set at 400mm apart

24 hrs later get a crow bar and try to get it of the wall. 
 

tell us what you think. 

[saveasteading]

I'm assuming you have this.

 

Which is the UK style.

these are usually engineering bricks so very hard.  The holes are often about 25mm dia. I'd use a new and branded drill bit to minimise bashing.

I think there is plenty of info on the wrappers of the gauze inserts.

 

[Stu84]

39 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

Get a 600 mm piece of 200x 48

fix it to the wall with two resin anchors set at 400mm apart

24 hrs later get a crow bar and try to get it of the wall. 
 

tell us what you think. 

Fair comment. I should imagine it ain't going anywhere.

[Stu84]

33 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

I'm assuming you have this.

 

Which is the UK style.

these are usually engineering bricks so very hard.  The holes are often about 25mm dia. I'd use a new and branded drill bit to minimise bashing.

I think there is plenty of info on the wrappers of the gauze inserts.

 

Just raked out part of a bed joint. Seems I have the bricks with ten holes (2 rows of 5). Going to head to merchant see if I can find the same bricks and then will order some resin and experiment. Any brick ID pros? It's a rustic finish, 10 holes, and there are multiple thin scribe lines on the back side (cavity side) of the brick, perhaps to speed up breaking them to length? Or maybe to encourage rain that has got through to dribble down the outer leaf? Just guessing. House built '92. Thanks

[Stu84]

Pic of bricks

[Russell griffiths]

 @Stu84

they are just normal face bricks, we are assuming you meant hollow clay blocks like they use abroad. 

no sleeves needed, resin anchor and away you go. 
the starter profile will just need the screws and plugs they supply. 

[Stu84]

1 hour ago, Russell griffiths said:

 @Stu84

they are just normal face bricks, we are assuming you meant hollow clay blocks like they use abroad. 

no sleeves needed, resin anchor and away you go. 
the starter profile will just need the screws and plugs they supply. 

I'll take that. Thank you. Yea I didn't really know what to call them. They are facing bricks, made of clay, with holes but perhaps not quite as much air as the EU bricks!

[George]

Sleeved resin anchors is best for perforated bricks but you can get away with non-sleeved for those. I'd just pay the extra few quid for the sleeve.

 

Agree normal plug and screw is fine for the wall starters. They aren't (supposed) to be subjected to any significant load. Use the sliding type on a rail. 

Edited March 21 by George

[joe90]

I would use vertical mortor bed, no voids.

[George]

8 minutes ago, joe90 said:

I would use vertical mortor bed, no voids.

 

Resin anchors should into the middle of the brick. Mortar can have variable strength and so you might not get the full rated capacity.