Del-inquent Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 Pretty much said it all in the topic title really. Our pump packed up in a big way, came across these tiny Shower Power Booster pumps while looking for a replacement. seem to get excellent reviews but I dunno, it seems so small and simple (but not cheap) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 Not me, I had to google them. The website I saw said they are 12 Watt. That's not a lot of power. The few conventional pumps I've looked at have been over 100W per pipe. I don't think there is any possibility of them having similar performance because even if their design was 100% efficient (12W in and 12W out) the conventional pump would have to have an efficiency of less than 12% to have the same output (100W in but only 12W out). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del-inquent Posted January 29 Author Share Posted January 29 1 hour ago, Temp said: Not me, I had to google them. The website I saw said they are 12 Watt. That's not a lot of power. The few conventional pumps I've looked at have been over 100W per pipe. I don't think there is any possibility of them having similar performance because even if their design was 100% efficient (12W in and 12W out) the conventional pump would have to have an efficiency of less than 12% to have the same output (100W in but only 12W out). That’s exactly the first thing I thought. They are only 0.5 bar boosters though so not as powerful as many pumps, but I’m not so worried about standing under a jet wash as having any water come out the shower at all, only have 0.4m head so it’s a bit like having a hamster pee on you 😂 The pump that’s failed, which was plenty enough for the job, was an ancient DC one and only ran 150w They seem to get a lot of rave reviews but it’s a fair bit of cash to gamble, hence looking for some real world experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ambrose Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 Well Imperial is a good university, so the product must be good It would be interesting to look at the original research and see the logic for the invention. It says it’s a 0.5bar boost, so maybe that’s enough pressure to go from hampster’s pee to … something else. One solution I know works is a Stuart Turner dual 3 bar pump. Expensive, but we’ve had the same one for 30 years, and apart from swapping out the little pressure vessel a few times, it’s been flawless. This is on a vented tank. You have unvented? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markc Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 12w just isn’t enough, to put it in context my cat water bowl pump is 4w and that’s just to move a trickle of water up around 6-8 inches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 Looking at the datasheet you are likely going to need one on the cold and the other on the hot pipe, so twice the cost. Only really useful for combi or unvented cylinder. What have you got? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del-inquent Posted January 29 Author Share Posted January 29 33 minutes ago, JohnMo said: Looking at the datasheet you are likely going to need one on the cold and the other on the hot pipe, so twice the cost. Only really useful for combi or unvented cylinder. What have you got? They do a twin pack to do both hot and cold, which is £220, or they do a double-boost for either/both to take it up to 1 bar at £170, so if you've got reasonable cold pressure (we do) then in theory you can get roughly equal to mains on hot. Part of the reason I don't want to spend too much is what we have at the moment is a complete mess of an install of a vented system which will be coming out in 12-18 months time when we extend the place. We're not sure if we're going to go Combi or unvented yet, but if their blurb is believable then these could be transferred onto the new system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 I've used the same pump that's used on these, in a solar HW system. The pump is actually surprisingly powerful for the current involved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 12 hours ago, Del-inquent said: Our pump packed up in a big way, came across these tiny Shower Power Booster pumps while looking for a replacement. seem to get excellent reviews but I dunno, it seems so small and simple (but not cheap) What sort of system do you already have, vented, unvented, combi. If you had a pump, why not just replace it. I put a twin impellor pump on my hot water for the bath/shower, 16 years ago, not had to touch it since. It was the cheapest pump from Screwfix, about £100. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del-inquent Posted January 29 Author Share Posted January 29 1 hour ago, Alan Ambrose said: Well Imperial is a good university, so the product must be good It would be interesting to look at the original research and see the logic for the invention. It says it’s a 0.5bar boost, so maybe that’s enough pressure to go from hampster’s pee to … something else. One solution I know works is a Stuart Turner dual 3 bar pump. Expensive, but we’ve had the same one for 30 years, and apart from swapping out the little pressure vessel a few times, it’s been flawless. This is on a vented tank. You have unvented? That's what I had on my last place, and is amazing for sure. Tank here at the moment is vented but as I said to Johnmo, it won't be for *that* long as it's a complete hotchpotch mess. We've actually given up trying to shower now it's just unusable, we've gone to a large bucket and an empty yoghurt pot, so need to do something short term as ladling cups of water over yourself gets very old very quickly 😆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del-inquent Posted January 29 Author Share Posted January 29 1 hour ago, SteamyTea said: What sort of system do you already have, vented, unvented, combi. If you had a pump, why not just replace it. I put a twin impellor pump on my hot water for the bath/shower, 16 years ago, not had to touch it since. It was the cheapest pump from Screwfix, about £100. Vented bodge job done by someone incapable of basic soldering skills... The pump that died was very old, very odd and very badly (and awkwardly) fitted. These little pumps I could have fitted in 15 minutes in a far better place and bypass the pump circuit (which also leaks), replacing the pump will involve a massive amount of work involving the tank (equally badly fitted) coming out. As it's all going to be ripped out completely in the not too distant future it would just have been nice to go the simpler route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 10 minutes ago, Del-inquent said: As it's all going to be ripped out completely in the not too distant future it would just have been nice to go the simpler route It is always nice to go for the easy solution, which is what probably happened when it was fitted. Can you just bring the fitting of a newer system forward as it is going to be redone anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del-inquent Posted January 29 Author Share Posted January 29 24 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: It is always nice to go for the easy solution, which is what probably happened when it was fitted. Can you just bring the fitting of a newer system forward as it is going to be redone anyway. unfortunately not, the new system is going in the new part of the house, which doesn't exist yet. If I wait that long to get the shower working I'll be going through divorce #2 I think... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 5 minutes ago, Del-inquent said: If I wait that long to get the shower working I'll be going through divorce #2 Is that all it takes, a smelly partner. Should have told my BiL that, would have saved my sister robbing him. I fitted my shower pump under the bath, it pumps to the bath mixer tap, and therefore the shower as well. Can you do something similar as a temporary measure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ambrose Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 (edited) >>> if you've got reasonable cold pressure (we do) One very useful bit of data is the actual water pressure you have - you can buy a test gauge to measure this for a few quid. Better yet, wire one in permanently via a ball valve to make it easier to change. Then you'll know whether you can use eternal pressure to power the new build. If the pressure is really good then maybe a quick and dirty unvented install? Edited January 29 by Alan Ambrose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del-inquent Posted January 29 Author Share Posted January 29 1 hour ago, SteamyTea said: Is that all it takes, a smelly partner. Should have told my BiL that, would have saved my sister robbing him. I fitted my shower pump under the bath, it pumps to the bath mixer tap, and therefore the shower as well. Can you do something similar as a temporary measure. I think it's more my wife having to wash with a B&Q bucket and yoghurt pot every day that's testing the patience, but I doubt my smell would help. I had a look at putting one elsewhere but it's honestly like they got a delivery of copper pipes thrown in a cupboard and just decided to connect them up wherever they fell. Under the bath isn't accessible (because they built it in, badly) so I'd rather not end up having to replace the bath as well for a short term measure. I've attached an image of how the sink trap was fitted, just to illustrate the quality of work I'm dealing with here. I think my favourite bit is the single layer of PTFE tape on the outer plastic threads. No rubber seals were used in the construction of this waste fitting (which is why I'm now lifting the floor to replace joists...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del-inquent Posted January 29 Author Share Posted January 29 5 hours ago, Alan Ambrose said: >>> if you've got reasonable cold pressure (we do) One very useful bit of data is the actual water pressure you have - you can buy a test gauge to measure this for a few quid. Better yet, wire one in permanently via a ball valve to make it easier to change. Then you'll know whether you can use eternal pressure to power the new build. If the pressure is really good then maybe a quick and dirty unvented install? Funny you should say that, I had to replace the stopcock last weekend, so I T'd a valve in the line as well ready for when the postman drops off the gauge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 16 hours ago, Del-inquent said: They do a twin pack to do both hot and cold, which is £220, or they do a double-boost for either/both to take it up to 1 bar at £170, Toolstation have several pumps in that range. They have a 2 bar twin for under £200. So it looks like you're only saving the installation cost. What's the current pump? Do they still make it. If so that's worth considering as all the pipes should line up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del-inquent Posted January 30 Author Share Posted January 30 7 hours ago, Temp said: Toolstation have several pumps in that range. They have a 2 bar twin for under £200. So it looks like you're only saving the installation cost. What's the current pump? Do they still make it. If so that's worth considering as all the pipes should line up. It’s not the cost, it what needs pulling apart to do the job, and fix the multiple problems with the dodgy plumbing when it was installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshian Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 On 29/01/2024 at 19:48, Del-inquent said: I had a look at putting one elsewhere but it's honestly like they got a delivery of copper pipes thrown in a cupboard and just decided to connect them up wherever they fell. Under the bath isn't accessible (because they built it in, badly) so I'd rather not end up having to replace the bath as well for a short term measure. I've attached an image of how the sink trap was fitted, just to illustrate the quality of work I'm dealing with here. I think my favourite bit is the single layer of PTFE tape on the outer plastic threads. No rubber seals were used in the construction of this waste fitting (which is why I'm now lifting the floor to replace joists...) I like the description of the pipework "honestly like they got a delivery of copper pipes thrown in a cupboard and just decided to connect them up wherever they fell. " Brilliant That waste fitting is all kinds of spezial - good luck because if that's what the previous home owners plumbing skills were like the house is going to be the gift just keep giving!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del-inquent Posted February 1 Author Share Posted February 1 12 hours ago, marshian said: I like the description of the pipework "honestly like they got a delivery of copper pipes thrown in a cupboard and just decided to connect them up wherever they fell. " Brilliant That waste fitting is all kinds of spezial - good luck because if that's what the previous home owners plumbing skills were like the house is going to be the gift just keep giving!!! Oh believe me, it really is. We're replacing the joists in the toilet, as that was similarly skilfully done. 3mm of the flush pipe pushed into the back of the toilet and at the cistern, the seals had been used but they'd been put in both backwards and inside out. Then had PTFE wrapped around the whole joint, over the outside of the clamp nut. On the plus side it has resulted in a good cushioning affect - sit down too heavily on the toilet and the entire floor gives to absorb the shock... My favourite so far is the 4Kg glass and brass light fitting in one room, suspended by 3 or 4 strands of the live and neutral wires. No earth fitted, the chain to hook it to a proper fixing tucked inside the cover. It fell off in my hands. Most of the lighting circuits have already been replaced, professionally by the look of it - when we took the ceilings down I found a 10m length of the original, no insulation left burnt to a crisp so I guess he'd done some work on that at some point and realised he maybe should get help when it started smoking... Hopefully explains why I'm not keen on disturbing too much until we absolutely have to and are in a position to do a permanent fix! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johncraig8229 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 On 28/01/2024 at 21:28, Del-inquent said: Pretty much said it all in the topic title really. Our pump packed up in a big way, came across these tiny Shower Power Booster pumps while looking for a replacement. seem to get excellent reviews but I dunno, it seems so small and simple (but not cheap) yes I have had an experience with the shower power booster pump, worth the money I would say. It was the main brand of booster pump that I had heard of when shopping around, maybe see if you can get it any cheaper somewhere else? also if you're not sure about installation ask a plumber you don't want to create more issues 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del-inquent Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 On 02/02/2024 at 13:16, johncraig8229 said: yes I have had an experience with the shower power booster pump, worth the money I would say. It was the main brand of booster pump that I had heard of when shopping around, maybe see if you can get it any cheaper somewhere else? also if you're not sure about installation ask a plumber you don't want to create more issues Cheers, unfortunately it seems that there is only one price for it, I think they are strict with that aspect! I'm more than happy to install it, I will be replumbing the whole house eventually, just don't have time yet and too much else of this project needs to be done first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ambrose Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 For posterity, please let us know how it is to fit and how well it solves the problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Carroll Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 I have never seen real pump curves for these shower boosters but I did a few sums a few years ago for somone who had a gravity fed shower (U/stairs bathroom) with mains cold feed reduced via a PRV and gravity hot, the gravity hot gave a head of ~ 2.5M and the shower flowrate was 3.5LPM. The calc I made up years ago and occasionally use is. watts = M*LPM/(6.14*n), where n = pump&motor efficiency, don't know what the overall efficiency of these pumps are but I assumed 40% overall, I came up with a equilibrium flowrate of 5.9LPM at a head of 7.5M (0.75bar), a boost of 5M (0.5bar. My calcs were LPM = 12*6.14*0.4/5, 5.9LPM, the shower head with a boost from 2.5M to 7.5M should give a increased flow of sqroot (7.5/2.5), 1.73, 1.73*3.5, 6.1LPM so reasonably close to the pump calculation for equilibrium, don't know if he installed this booster or not as I heard no more. It would be interesting if someone who has one or two of these boosters installed in a gravity shower to inform of the increased flow rate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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