Multi studio apartment heating/cooling solutions

[LuisB]

Hello,

 

I'm in the process of buying a very old village house that is already divided in 5 studio apartments with individual entrances and electricity meters.

My plan is to live in one of the studios and rent out the others, total occupancy range 5 to 10.

 

Well I couldn't embed the image but here's the google maps location, it's the abandoned house in the corner: https://maps.app.goo.gl/LSNiott7zKBHWKZj8

<a href="https://ibb.co/3WLXZQ7"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/5vfDHw6/PXL-20240109-142828111.jpg" alt="PXL-20240109-142828111" border="0"></a>

 

Currently thinking of some options for centralized solutions I could use for ecology and to save the future tenants on utility bills, but also have reasonable renovation costs.

I plan to share cold water supply (usage is a small % of the bill here, the rest is charges for this and that), and high speed internet since a 1GB connection is more than enough for all.

 

Now I am wondering what to do about heating, cooling and hot water. This is in Portugal so temperatures range from 0 to 40 and I would deem both necessary long term.

The property doesn't currently have plumbing so it's all new runs.

Although I currently live in the UK, I'm not familiar with all the acronyms I've come across some other posts, so please bear with me...

 

I am considering a couple solutions:

1. Big immersion heater for all. Would have to be 3-400L?
   1. Unsure if it's a waste of electricity to keep all that water hot.
   2. Could still run out due to similar shower schedules.
   3. Unsure if it can handle simultaneous showers.
2. Individual immersion heaters in each studio.
   1. Most common here.
   2. Fairly cheap to buy/run.
   3. Takes up the most space.
3. Some form of Instantaneous water heater that would serve shower, basin and sink since they would be only meters apart.
   1. Cheapest/easiest install, less pipes.
   2. Most expensive to run.
   3. I've never been happy with an electric shower due to low flow and wouldn't want to impose that on anyone else, but maybe they were cheapos.
4. ASHP for heating and water with a shared tank.
   1. Big ass bill and most complex install, requiring loads of space (but do-able).
   2. Highest efficiency and ecology.
   3. Big tanks, I imagine it wouldn't run out.
   4. Still need a separate cooling solution for the hot summers.

 

Options 1-3 mean I can separately add air-to-air ASHP for heating and cooling budget permitting, and just use electric heaters and ice packs in the mean time 😅

Air-to-air would be cheaper, and it would be individual to each studio for usage and billing purposes.

I worry that the shared solutions don't work due to careless use (ah it's included!) and either run tanks dry or drive my electric bill up in a way that it will be hard to evenly distribute through the rents.

 

Any advice appreciated 😁

Edited January 17 by LuisB
Add google map link

[Mr Punter]

Unless you are using a heat pump, the hot water will cost the same to heat for 1-3 but you will get some heat losses from storing hot water in 1 and 2.

 

Maybe a cold water accumulator, decent electric showers and under sink water heaters for each flat, plus individual air to air heat pumps would be best.

[ProDave]

Don't forget legislation coming down the tracks that will demand a minimum EPC on rental properties.  Now might be the time to think about upgrading the fabric of the building. I think the eventual target is all rental properties to be a minimum EPC C

 

EDIT:  Ignore that, I see the property is in Portugal.

[Mike]

8 hours ago, ProDave said:

Don't forget legislation coming down the tracks that will demand a minimum EPC on rental properties.  Now might be the time to think about upgrading the fabric of the building. I think the eventual target is all rental properties to be a minimum EPC C

 

EDIT:  Ignore that, I see the property is in Portugal.

 

Don't ignore it, check it out! Similar laws already apply here in France, and it wouldn't surprise me if Portugal has them too too - or plans to do so.

 

[HughF]

Air-air for the individual flats, and electric showers. Do you have 3 phase there? You might be able to get a decent 3 phase electric shower….

[LuisB]

Thanks for the feedback!

No 3 phase IIRC.

 

Rentals need to have an EPC certificate and the better the lowest the property tax!

I do plan to improve it as it's currently solid stone, mostly granite, with cement/lime render. I planned to open another topic for that as I've read some conflicting opinions on how to isolate solid stone walls.

I think individual air-to-air will be the way to go...the cooling can also be very valuable in hot summers.

The shared hot water seems too flaky, plus an additional huge heat pump for that, some instant heaters should provide an easy interim solution and minimize plumbing.

 

Thanks!!  

[Andehh]

I would be wary of one potential awkward tenant ruining it for all. One tenant having a full, hot bath in the morning or evening.... would deplete a large portion of that 300L.

 

And/or several hot showers in the morning or evening emptying it again.

 

Broadband... A couple of people downloading torrents etc can have an impact if everyone else is watching Netflix or gaming.

 

That hot water situation would be a concern though, as could be a massive headache as people will NOT be quiet about semi regular cold showers which they can't control, predict or plan around.

[LuisB]

Yes I've decided against the shared hot water, it just doesn't work if everyone decides to have a bath at the same time.

 

The area has 1Gb fibre so I'm not concerned about bandwidth. They could get their own service if required, but the base price is quite expensive considering the wage here, so I think they might appreciate one bill less and high speed wifi/wired. I have a set of UniFi APs that I plan to use and segregate so each studio has their own network.